Two stories. I had never thought of that one for Raiders.
Re: Story Limit. I think it’s optionlock: who will find the location first, then who gets to open it/use it (or prevent its use).
I suggest Indy’s father as Skeptic. Though the father isn’t an on-screen character in the first film, his skepticism of (even condescension toward) Indy’s abilities and Indy’s approach to many things is clearly felt. In fact, that is one of the main themes developed in the third film (with Sean Connery in the role of father). It is hinted at many times throughout the trilogy.
Yikes, no I hadn’t thought two stories through.
Isn’t the timelock that they have to find the Ark before the Nazis do? why is it an option lock?
How does Indy change? I don’t see that.
I’m not sure what you mean what would you do for history? My thought would be that the opening scene sets the history – Belloq’s comment that again I take from you what you find.
When I put this into Dramatica, I should use gists? I was looking at the “how to use Dramatica” thread from 7 months ago and was totally surprised to see the concept of using the gists instead of the traditional Dramatica vocabulary. Did I interpret that correctly?
Also, I have some forms we use for those who don’t have the software. Do you want these uploaded and if so, where?
In regards to the Timelock, how much time passes? You should be able to define it in a concrete amount of days/hours/minutes etc. The nature of a Timelock is to show the appropriateness of a certain approach given a definite time restraint.
In regards to the Resolve, you can look at both stories:
Story A: the Indy/Belloq argument (“It would only take a nudge to make you like me”), Indy doesn’t see himself giving up his set of standards to bed with the Nazis like Belloq … but then he does just that when he decides not to blow them all “back to God”. That’s Change/Bad.
Story B: the Indy/Religion argument - which is handed off from Brody to Sallah to the Arc itself. In that story Indy starts out now believing in a lot of “hocus-pocus nonsense” but then ends up telling Marion to close her eyes (because now he does believe). That’s Change/Good.
1 Like
Thanks for the explanations and clarifications. Here is what comes from putting it in the software using the ‘A’ storyline of Indy/Belloq,
And the “B” storyline Indy/Religion. It seems backwards to me? thoughts? And I’m totally lost on the Issues level now.
So I went down and found IC (Belloq) a critical flaw of Self Interest and a solution of Hinder which filled in the rest of the storyform:
Thoughts?
1 Like
For both stories, the Overall Story is in Activity with a Concern of Obtaining and a Problem of Pursuit.
1 Like
OK, now I’m confused again. How can story judgement of both good and bad and MC growth both start and stop end up with the same storyform?
Some works have more than one storyform in them. You’ll see this in massive epics like Lord of the Rings and in longer, more complex films like Jerry Maguire.
I’m assuming you’re new to looking at story through the eyes of Dramatica, in which case you should know that the Dramatica storyform isn’t so much a roadmap for the story you want to write as much as it is a roadmap for the argument you want to make. That is why they refer to a Dramatica story as a Grand Argument Story.
A work can have more than one argument going on and thus, more than one storyform within it. When you look at Raiders of the Lost Ark (which I really wouldn’t if you’re new to the theory’s concepts), you can see there are two separate arguments being made. One ends badly for the Main Character, the other good(ly).
1 Like
New, yes in understanding and no in time. I’ve read “the book” 4-5 times and read most of what was on the old site before this one was started, watched a lot of Melanie’s videos, a group of us tried analyzing some stories (followed analyses of Lawrence of Arabia, Toy Story, To Kill a Mockingbird, tried Up) but it’s been the blind leading the blind. I have the software (both Mac and Windows), I “get it” enough to have a gut feeling that it’s more powerful and includes all other approaches out there, but I don’t get it enough to understand how to apply it in other than having a MC/IC 4 throughlines, and archetypes, or how to apply it to make a compelling argument. I’d really like another “application” exercise? 10. I just finished watching Ida and will attend Tuesday (requested joining G+).
We have a writers critique group here and I understand enough about Dramatica to see that the major problem with all the stories brought to the group is that there is no story goal, no argument and no impact character in most of them. I picked Raiders because it hasn’t been analyzed on the websites, is very well known, seems to be a common “storyform” in our critique group, because most were familiar with it, and it seems to be typical of what several members want to write (start with what is familiar and of interest).
Got it. Yes if you want to do an analysis of Raiders by all means do. My sense is that it is somehow incomplete. I know the two stories in it, but I think they somehow share the same Overall Story Throughline.
Don’t get me wrong. The movie is awesome. I just don’t know if there is a complete argument being told there (though I could be wrong). The intent was to revive the old serials which in and of themselves were only tales.
1 Like
You might be right about it being incomplete. I remember sitting at the end of the film, “But…?” There seemed to be something missing, the whacking of the Nazis seeming rushed and slapped together for an end. Maybe Indy 4 became the end for the writer? 
Wow. I’m so glad we’re tackling this classic film. Here are some thoughts. Indy would be steadfast and Marion would be change in terms of her relationship to Indy, or something more like opening up. I wonder if Beloq would be the Contagonist because he hinders both Indy and the Nazis. I can see him making the temptation argument with Indy several times. What about the unnamed Nazi with the facial scar? It’s tempting to make him either a sidekick or contagonist, too. I’ll think through this and see if I can figure out the signposts. The Goal would seem to clearly be Obtaining. That makes the Indy-Marion relationship be Changing One’s Nature. Um, perhaps that’s reflected in them warming up to each other. However, I could see Marion in Situation and more precisely in Progress because Indy has stepped back into her life, and prior to that Indy left her as a young girl (morality aside) and she hasn’t been progressing since being in the Himalayas (or wherever). Is the Goal to obtain the ark or probably is it to stop the re-enactment of the ritual at the climax?
@geoff did you read anything I wrote? It seems like you’re just writing a stream-of-consciousness with no attempt to engage with what has already been discussed here before.
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean it to come off as disconnected. You mentioned two possible stories going on. I could go along with you on two RS through lines: one with Belloq and one with Marion.
What kind of influence/impact does Marion have on Indy? What is her alternative paradigm?
1 Like
(To summarize initial post and changes from subsequent suggestions)
We have 2 OS storyforms with an overall throughline of Find and safeguard the Ark before the Nazis do. If there are two storyforms then are there 2 OS throughlines?
OS Throughline: Situation-Past- Destiny?
MC Throughline: Find Ark and recover it for Government (Activity-Obtaining)
IC Throughline: ?? Find Ark and recover it for Personal Profit (Belloq’s) (Psychology/Manipulation-Conceiving (of ways to get it back from Indy?)
Relationship Throughline:? Fixed attitude-Subconscious-Hope (that it will make him rich?)
I’m confused on how to try an analysis with two storyforms. Do you analyze each one separately as if it were the only storyform?
Thank-you for thoughts and suggestions.
Yes. That’s how it’s done. The above storyform choices seem pretty accurate. I would split them out into separate storyforms and see how they play out. (though I’m guessing both are Stop stories)
Sent you the post meant for LLou and don’t know how to delete it. Sorry!
I’m wondering if you finished this Analysis and if you broke it down to plot progressions (does anybody?). I’d love to see it. I’m thinking a Raiders model would help me figure out something I’m working on, but I’m not adept enough with Dramatica to figure out the nuances myself.
[/quote]
The SKEPTIC might be Dr Ravenwood, who renounced Indy after he ‘Raided’ the Dr’s daughter Marion. Who in the backstory was the prize, like the Ark, that Indy took without conscience in a Belloq like fashion. Just a thought.