Hi guys. Been reworking my outline for my book. @jhull and @chuntley I would like to ask how to combine (Weave) two storyforms into one grand work. I have a story with two MC and therefore two POVs in the novel. How do I go about really meshing the two together? Thanks.
You might find some information from past discussions and posts on this link: http://forums.screenplay.com/index.php?sid=d2e5418b3695f25d1f8fe0052c7c45e0
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Thanks @Prish. Bless you. Iāve looked through most of the topics. Found some interesting tips but what Iām really asking is the āhowā when it comes to weaving the two storyforms together. Listened to @jhull 's podcast and how he said he did the Tangled storyforms for each season. So my question is how to mesh two just like Jerry Maguire etc. Thanks.
Iām really interested in this question, too. I recently realized that Iām not a huge fan of āensemble stories,ā for basically this reason. I usually feel like the different storyforms never really mix together meaningfully.
I suppose if I offered my own advice to those stories I wasnāt fond of, Iād say:
- Make sure the events of storyform A affect storyform B, and vice versa.
- Make the thematics of the two storyforms similar. Otherwise, why not just publish two separate stories?
- Make sure to cut back and forth regularly between the two storyforms. Also, once you jump to the other storyform, start it with a brief overview of the most recent events.
- Donāt put two Main Characters in the same scene together. This is probably unavoidable for some stories (e.g. when the MC of one is the IC of the other), but it just makes things confusing.
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Books have done it with time, whatās happening now and the past events. I I havenāt seen the TV show This is Us but that might be what theyāre doing from what I hear.
@actingpower Exactly What my question is because Iām writing a fantasy book. So these links are absolutely necessary. @chuntley And @jhull Please kindly enlighten us. Thanks.
You might not even need two storyforms. It may be your story is about several throughlines and once you write the book it might be clearer.
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Hi @Khodu,
I started writing a long response, which Iāll post later, but first I would ask you this: are you SURE you have two different full storyforms with two different MCs? Why do you think so?
My feeling about novels is that they are tricky beasts; often you can get really into the emotional perspective of many different characters, especially when there are multiple POVs. Sometimes this might mean there is a sub-story like Finding Nemo (or second storyform like Jerry Maguire), but often, I think, itās just the way novels are.
Are you sure youāre sensing two different complete stories in your book ā two different Goals for the two OSās and everything that goes with that? And eight separate throughlines?
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As always @mlucas Your input is highly welcome. The thing is thereās a huge sub-story. But the main PoV there is another character and he isnāt the IC in the main story. Although heās the love interest. He has a personal mission of his own in the central arena of the story. The MC in the main story leaves at some point. So while sheās away, his story will come full circle before they are united. Thanks.
Hi @Khodu,
It sounds a little bit like The Sound of Music, which has a fairly large sub-story āThe Rise of Nazismā alongside the main āMaking of a Familyā story. Maybe you could watch that film as well to get ideas of how to blend stories together.
It sounds like you might indeed have a sub-story, or second storyform, from your brief paragraph. Letās append ā2ā to everything for that sub-storyā¦ can you see that MC2 has a Resolve (Change or Steadfast)? Do you know who IC2 is? Can you see an emotional relationship between them that changes in some way?
From your description it sounds like the two storyforms might have a shared OS? Like this:
IC1 IC2
/ \ / \
RS1 OS_for_all RS2
\ / \ /
MC1 MC2
Or do you think there are two Overall Stories, each with their own Goal, Outcome etc.? That would look more like this:
IC1 IC2
/ \ / \
RS1 OS1 <-> OS2 RS2
\ / \ /
MC1 MC2
If this is the case, they might still have certain touch-points in common (stuff that does double-duty, e.g. āKing abdicates the throneā might be Requirements in one story and Forewarnings in another), represented by the double-headed arrow pointing between them. But you should be able to summarize each OS separately in its own sentence or two. Like āthe struggle to prevent the Dukeās ascensionā and āwinning the hearts and minds of the pirate folkā.
Also, for a sub-story, itās good if something about the sub-storyās outcome impacts the main story in a major way. The obvious way to do this would be the sub-storyās Goal could relate to the main storyās Requirements, but there are plenty of other ways to do it probably. Hopefully youāve already had some ideas along these lines.
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Iām very interested in this subject as well. I have a story with 2 separate MCs each with their own ICs but where the relationship between the 2 MCs is the OS. Since they are both steadfast characters, the roles the 2 ICs play ā as well as the OS characters ā is sometimes hard to distinguish and tends to wax and wane through the story.
Another 2-MC structure that we havenāt mentioned yet is the one with a single storyform but shared throughlines. Like in The Princess Bride or The Usual Suspects.
Now those movies had an inner and outer story, which doesnāt sound like yours @JAPartridge but you might still want to consider the possibility of a single storyform with 2 MC players and 2 IC players sharing the respective throughlines. Just a thought. Do your MCās have similar types of personal issues? Do your ICs have similar types of influence / impact?
Itās difficult to comment on this when there really arenāt any rules or specific advice to give beyond anecdotal. That is why youāre receiving back a wealth of really great ideas and approachesāyou can basically mix and match anyway you want. As long as you stay consistent with the storyform when youāre in a certain context, your Audience will get what you are trying to say.
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Thank you for your insights. I already worked out the MC2 and IC2 already. The book is going to be a standalone so Iām really digging your first illustration as it would keep the book more focused. And for a future trilogy,I would employ the second diagram it looks awesome for that purpose. Now hereās the little kink, MC1 and MC2 are lovers later on in the story. So Iām guessing Iāll sneak it in the OS. Thanks again.
Iād suggest watching Ordinary People. I canāt confirm the two storyforms as I havenāt gotten around to figuring them out yet, but I know Chris had spoken once about there being two distinct stories going on that are wrapped around each other. In fact, Robert McKee mentions this in his book, Story, acknowledging the two are often mistaken for one another. The main story involves the father, Calvin, trying to keep his family together while the second āsub-plotā which actually encompasses the majority of the story involves his suicidal son, Conrad, and the guilt he harbors having survived the tragic boating accident that took the familyās eldest (and motherās favorite) son.
Off the top of my head, there are clear MCās and ICās in each story, but how theyāre woven together is why Iād recommend watching it as a single scene bounces back and forth between the two. The story involving Conrad ends successfully and ultimately influences Calvinās which results in failure. I think itās a brilliant piece of writing and itās easy to see, at least on as many multiple viewings Iāve given it, where each respective story begins and ends and how dependent they are upon one another.
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Thanks for your input @JBarker . Will definitely go see it. Iāll be on the lookout for the link between the two storyforms.
@JBarker Just saw Ordinary people. Nice movie. Indeed there are two storyforms. I did them as I watched. They are so woven together that to the uninitiated itāll seem like a single story. Saw this site on McKeeās methods. It seems like he could identify the two stories but his inciting incident was so subjective. This is why he might need to give Dramatica a look. Thanks for the recommendation.
Youāre welcome and glad you liked it. Thatās the article I wrote which looked at it from his perspective elsewhere in Story as having a set-up and payoff. The āFrench Toastā scene he cites just felt incomplete but has more gravitas when adding the scene which precedes it - not to mention it links perfectly with the realization made near the climax.
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@JBarker Exactly! One of my storyforms(the main story) ends with a Failure/Good ending. Then the subplot was a Success/good story. The two were quite the interwoven bundle. Thanks again
I believe he was introduced to Dramatica in '94. His reaction was none too pleasantā¦
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