You might not even need two storyforms. It may be your story is about several throughlines and once you write the book it might be clearer.
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Hi @Khodu,
I started writing a long response, which I’ll post later, but first I would ask you this: are you SURE you have two different full storyforms with two different MCs? Why do you think so?
My feeling about novels is that they are tricky beasts; often you can get really into the emotional perspective of many different characters, especially when there are multiple POVs. Sometimes this might mean there is a sub-story like Finding Nemo (or second storyform like Jerry Maguire), but often, I think, it’s just the way novels are.
Are you sure you’re sensing two different complete stories in your book – two different Goals for the two OS’s and everything that goes with that? And eight separate throughlines?
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As always @mlucas Your input is highly welcome. The thing is there’s a huge sub-story. But the main PoV there is another character and he isn’t the IC in the main story. Although he’s the love interest. He has a personal mission of his own in the central arena of the story. The MC in the main story leaves at some point. So while she’s away, his story will come full circle before they are united. Thanks.
Hi @Khodu,
It sounds a little bit like The Sound of Music, which has a fairly large sub-story “The Rise of Nazism” alongside the main “Making of a Family” story. Maybe you could watch that film as well to get ideas of how to blend stories together.
It sounds like you might indeed have a sub-story, or second storyform, from your brief paragraph. Let’s append ‘2’ to everything for that sub-story… can you see that MC2 has a Resolve (Change or Steadfast)? Do you know who IC2 is? Can you see an emotional relationship between them that changes in some way?
From your description it sounds like the two storyforms might have a shared OS? Like this:
IC1 IC2
/ \ / \
RS1 OS_for_all RS2
\ / \ /
MC1 MC2
Or do you think there are two Overall Stories, each with their own Goal, Outcome etc.? That would look more like this:
IC1 IC2
/ \ / \
RS1 OS1 <-> OS2 RS2
\ / \ /
MC1 MC2
If this is the case, they might still have certain touch-points in common (stuff that does double-duty, e.g. “King abdicates the throne” might be Requirements in one story and Forewarnings in another), represented by the double-headed arrow pointing between them. But you should be able to summarize each OS separately in its own sentence or two. Like “the struggle to prevent the Duke’s ascension” and “winning the hearts and minds of the pirate folk”.
Also, for a sub-story, it’s good if something about the sub-story’s outcome impacts the main story in a major way. The obvious way to do this would be the sub-story’s Goal could relate to the main story’s Requirements, but there are plenty of other ways to do it probably. Hopefully you’ve already had some ideas along these lines.
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I’m very interested in this subject as well. I have a story with 2 separate MCs each with their own ICs but where the relationship between the 2 MCs is the OS. Since they are both steadfast characters, the roles the 2 ICs play – as well as the OS characters – is sometimes hard to distinguish and tends to wax and wane through the story.
Another 2-MC structure that we haven’t mentioned yet is the one with a single storyform but shared throughlines. Like in The Princess Bride or The Usual Suspects.
Now those movies had an inner and outer story, which doesn’t sound like yours @JAPartridge but you might still want to consider the possibility of a single storyform with 2 MC players and 2 IC players sharing the respective throughlines. Just a thought. Do your MC’s have similar types of personal issues? Do your ICs have similar types of influence / impact?
It’s difficult to comment on this when there really aren’t any rules or specific advice to give beyond anecdotal. That is why you’re receiving back a wealth of really great ideas and approaches–you can basically mix and match anyway you want. As long as you stay consistent with the storyform when you’re in a certain context, your Audience will get what you are trying to say.
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Thank you for your insights. I already worked out the MC2 and IC2 already. The book is going to be a standalone so I’m really digging your first illustration as it would keep the book more focused. And for a future trilogy,I would employ the second diagram it looks awesome for that purpose. Now here’s the little kink, MC1 and MC2 are lovers later on in the story. So I’m guessing I’ll sneak it in the OS. Thanks again.
I’d suggest watching Ordinary People. I can’t confirm the two storyforms as I haven’t gotten around to figuring them out yet, but I know Chris had spoken once about there being two distinct stories going on that are wrapped around each other. In fact, Robert McKee mentions this in his book, Story, acknowledging the two are often mistaken for one another. The main story involves the father, Calvin, trying to keep his family together while the second “sub-plot” which actually encompasses the majority of the story involves his suicidal son, Conrad, and the guilt he harbors having survived the tragic boating accident that took the family’s eldest (and mother’s favorite) son.
Off the top of my head, there are clear MC’s and IC’s in each story, but how they’re woven together is why I’d recommend watching it as a single scene bounces back and forth between the two. The story involving Conrad ends successfully and ultimately influences Calvin’s which results in failure. I think it’s a brilliant piece of writing and it’s easy to see, at least on as many multiple viewings I’ve given it, where each respective story begins and ends and how dependent they are upon one another.
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Thanks for your input @JBarker . Will definitely go see it. I’ll be on the lookout for the link between the two storyforms.
@JBarker Just saw Ordinary people. Nice movie. Indeed there are two storyforms. I did them as I watched. They are so woven together that to the uninitiated it’ll seem like a single story. Saw this site on McKee’s methods. It seems like he could identify the two stories but his inciting incident was so subjective. This is why he might need to give Dramatica a look. Thanks for the recommendation.
You’re welcome and glad you liked it. That’s the article I wrote which looked at it from his perspective elsewhere in Story as having a set-up and payoff. The “French Toast” scene he cites just felt incomplete but has more gravitas when adding the scene which precedes it - not to mention it links perfectly with the realization made near the climax.
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@JBarker Exactly! One of my storyforms(the main story) ends with a Failure/Good ending. Then the subplot was a Success/good story. The two were quite the interwoven bundle. Thanks again
I believe he was introduced to Dramatica in '94. His reaction was none too pleasant…
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That is an understatement.
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Did Mckee’s emotional state move from a positive to a negative? Good scene work.
Damn, now that’s a story I want to hear. Let me guess…he was stuck in Fixed Attitude?
Oh my! He had an Issue of: Security. (for his paradigm and reputation no less). I’ve heard great things but never studied his theory. I had studied Truby extensively. Then K.M Weiland. She mentions DRAMATICA in her character arc book and that’s where I learned about you guys. You know what lemme start that thread.
I have to admit, when I attended McKee’s seminar back in 2002 while living in Las Vegas, I made it through the first-morning session on Friday and then I was outta there. He’s a captivating speaker, but he was literally speaking word for word from his book which (thankfully) lacked a certain tone you hear in person if you know what I mean. Even then, I would have stayed but the biggest, no-can-do issue for me was there was no way in hell my 6’4" 240lbs frame was going to squeeze into a cramped lecture hall seat for three days straight.
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SPOILER Just adding a reference… one of my favorite novel’s is Neal Stephenson’s Snow Crash… there are two MCs: one is called Hiro Protagonist, who may or may not be a hero, and who is steadfast in his stunted emotional growth throughout the story; being exactly the same person at the end of the story… and the other MC is called YT, which stands for Yours Truly, who may or may not be a hero, but she definitely evolves emotionally in the end, though even this is subtle. I think of them as the anti-hero (or neutral hero) and as the actual hero, respectively. The story is interwoven and although the two work together in a few scenes, they are almost always apart, with the story flapping back and forth. The novel is long, about 400 pages.