Not a bad idea! Will definitely look into it. I did have a version where the lists had additional details like ‘most popular in:’ (like Rebalance subgenre being most popular in superhero movies; or Attack subgenre being most popular in sports movies, etc. – basically just identifying the most popular ‘genres’ for each) but it became too constricting and I didn’t want people to be influenced by what’s ‘popular’.
I’ll add it to the to-do list! Thank you, @Khodu!
Quick update:
Working on the Mind domain next because there’s so few, but it will take a little longer than planned cause I haven’t had a lot of free time this month, sadly. Only got around to watching four of the twenty(?) Mind stories. Oh, and twenty minutes of Peyton Place but, to be fair, that’s a tough watch given all of the unpleasantness (AND THE THREE HOUR RUNTIME).
So, for now, it’s been pushed back to October. But it’s happening! 12 Angry Men, The Babadook, Home Alone and When Marnie Was There down so far. Now onto the other… sixteen.
Mind stories are so interesting. I just finished reading Stephen King’s “Apt Pupil” and really had no idea where it was until I read the analysis.
At some point I’d love to do a group analysis on Fahrenheit 451 (the book), which I strongly suspect is in Mind as well.
Good useful work Jay, appreciated as always!
@jhay Bless you. Anything on the scale of what uve embarked on is worth the wait. I’m sure it will be phenomenal. Cheers.
Hi everyone. Been a long, long, September. Hope we’ve all been productive? @jhay how’s your amazing work coming along? Been itching like a crackhead all month. I know it will be worth the wait. So is the ETA still first week of October? I can hardly contain my excitement.
All the best @jhay. Stay safe guys.
It has indeed been a very long month, hasn’t it?
Yes, October is still the plan! I have something to share, for sure. I have had to take a slightly different approach with this one, given the much shorter range of stories available, but will discuss that in the next post. I just need to take a look at the Preconscious and the consequences and then we’re all done with the Mind domain!
wow can’t wait. I’m looking forward
@jhay do you think it’s possible to construct contextual subgenres for the other static plot points, costs, dividends, requirements, prerequisites, preconditions and forewarnings.
Good question, and one I’ve thought about a few times!
I already know what the next area of research will be, but I’ll definitely add this to the list of future ideas. It’ll probably be a while before I get to it, though.
True it will take a while. I’m still trying to full grasp and test my hypothesis on other parts of dramatica.
I’ve found the contextual sub genres you’ve developed already incredibly helpful.
@jhay is it okay with you if I share your findings on my online social media accounts and link back to this post?
also I’ve been wondering if the contextual subgenres can be matched to the variations underneath them to create more finesse in the story telling.
Of course!
If you mean lining up, for example, the Obtaining subgenres with the Obtaining variations, the answer is yes and no.
YES: like all of the quads, the subgenres obey TKAD, so they do broadly line up with the variations beneath them. Obtaining has Competitive (Approach), Security (Attitude), Benefit (Self Interest) and Rebalance (Morality) stories; Being has Persona (Desire) and Expectation (Ability) stories, etc. You absolutely can do it.
NO: But most of the stories don’t line up that way. While some do, the majority tend to be elsewhere in the quad. Most of the Rebalance stories tend to be in the Self-Interest quad, for example. If all subgenres shared the same variation, it would become very ‘samey’ pretty quickly because every story would be dealing with the same issues.
My personal theory (and I haven’t tried this) would be to tie the subgenres to the signposts. Whereas the Issues are variations on theme, the subgenres are variations on the story ‘type’ itself. I think the finesse you’re looking for might be hidden in there, and would probably be less ‘samey’ – because, for example, an Investigation story can be anything from a detective looking to find out what happened to his missing wife to a cowboy trying to find out which anthropomorphic horse drank his beer.
For example, if writing a dark comedy movie, you might have this:
Signpost 1 - Learning (Self-Discovery): After his wife abruptly divorces him, a high school teacher begins to see that he’s wasted his life teaching kids that have gone on to be disappointments or criminals. His life’s work is for nothing, and he is once again alone and miserable.
Signpost 2 - Doing (Endeavour): The teacher quits his job and turns to a life of adolescent joy: egging houses, shoplifting, spray painting. Anything that will give him a thrill.
Signpost 3 - Obtaining (Benefit): After getting a rush from shoplifting, the teacher turns to more and more intense ‘lifts’, breaking into the home of his former boss and stealing his rug. He’s soon arrested when his boss checks in on him, and sees the rug firsthand.
Signpost 4 - Understanding (Appreciation): Unable to explain what happened, the teacher is placed in a correctional facility, where he is taught to understand basic concepts like ‘why stealing is wrong’ by a former ‘disappointing’ student.
thanks [quote=“jhay, post:54, topic:1893”]
My personal theory (and I haven’t tried this) would be to tie the subgenres to the signposts. Whereas the Issues are variations on theme, the subgenres are variations on the story ‘type’ itself. I think the finesse you’re looking for might be hidden in there, and would probably be less ‘samey’ – because, for example, an Investigation
[/quote]
very interesting. I’ll focus on maximizing your discovery for now.
There’s a lot of potential to develop the whole contextual subgenre process using the quad operations…
@jhay, I’m working through a storyform with a Goal/Concern of Concieving and looking for the fourth item in that one. Do you know which three types might line up with the three types of stories you have listed?
These are all my notes on the Psychology quads:
Conceptualizing:
Conspiracy – Situation
Legacy – Circumstances
Being:
Expectation – Ability
Persona – Desire
Becoming
Social Change – Rationalization
Makeover – Commitment
Evolution – Responsibility
Conceiving
Expose – Permission
Inception – Deficiency
Idea – Need
Do you have a process for determining those? How did you determine that Expose was the most like Knowledge or Permission and not Idea?
This is my biggest weak point, because my mind is strongly creative and not especially academic or technical, so I’ll be the first to say I couldn’t identify a ‘T’ from a ‘K’ if you paid me. In the above cases, most of the notes have been applied to the variations based on their Dramatica definitions. They just ‘feel’ right to me, there’s no technical logic in it. I did add the physics notes and a little disclaimer about it being subjective to the above comment, but the edit seems to have not been made for some reason.
But the process for those was basically:
So, for Conceiving, we had:
Then I just thought logically. To expose something, you don’t get permission, you just do it. To plant an idea, you need a subject that is deficient of that idea. In coming up with a new idea, there has to be a need for it. Same with Becoming: you commit to a makeover, an evolution of life forces you to be responsible, and social change is about breaking a community’s rationalizations.
There’s honestly no science behind me listing those things, and I imagine you could make an argument for a different way (you could easily say planting an idea in someone’s mind doesn’t require permission, etc.). I don’t know, I trust you guys with the TKAD stuff more than myself. It’s kind of why I’ve stayed away from listing them properly (as well as the fact that it doesn’t really line up with the variations consistently): I know it works, I know it’s there, but I don’t know how.
If anyone wants to look into the TKAD connection further, feel free! Perhaps it will help me understand it finally. 
Well, before you gave me your notes,I tried to see how I’d align them, and the first way I came up matched what you have. So we’re on the same page. I was just hoping to get some insight that might help me figure out that last one.
Without putting in the time to watch the movies that you have, I don’t think this is something I really need to be doing.