How do you introduce people to Dramatica?

theory
#5

So I was looking into STC which at first I thought was interesting, but quickly saw how disconnected and meaningless the beats were and how they forced the events of my story to happen in what I felt would be the wrong order. When I saw an ad for Dramatica and checked it out, it spoke about how it was all about creating meaningful stories and how it gave you a reason that one event would follow another. Sounded exactly like what I needed.

As an aside, the first big project I started working on with Dramatica has the MC killing a dog, a meaningful act that also sticks it to STC a bit.

Later, I was reading a Dramatica article about story drivers (if I remember correctly) and it spoke about The Dark Knight. I never cared for the scene with the prisoners and citizens on the boat with the choice to blow up the other. It seemed cliche, and I knew pretty close to how it would play out as soon as it started. Whenever I mentioned that I didn’t think that scene fit, everyone else would always say,"meh, it’s okay I think. ". So when the article suggested that that scene didn’t work because it was a decision driver in an action driven story, it had me sold. I didn’t understand everything it was saying at that point, but any theory that could tell me why that scene didn’t work (and that agreed with me about it when others wouldn’t admit that it didn’t work) I felt must have something going for it.

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#6

Avoiding the False Moment :relaxed:

#7

I also just found this article from Melanie: Introduction To Dramatica
It’s a bit heavy for newbies, but a pretty good introduction to the concept of the Story Mind.

#8

Mike, I remember seeing an advertisement for Dramatica v.1.6 in the MacMall about 1995. I purused and studied the graphic for about 20 minutes, and I bought the software based on that picture. It was on a background of burgundy and dark green, that I remember. I jumped a huge learning curve studying it. However, I can’t find my old copy…drats. I have come up with a later one, similar in tone. Chris said I could post it, here. Maybe, it will help your friend, too. As an aside: if anyone has that original graphic from the first dram pros, can I have a copy?

WDK-Logo.jpg1400×1400 509 KB

#9

Thanks Patricia. Can you tell me what the diagram represents? I can see the more apparent stuff: four throughlines / classes, each with four concerns, and each with what appears to be their own story, coming together in some sort of nexus in the middle which must represent what we see as the actual story after all the weaving.

Do the different appearance of images (solid, blurry, negative, mosaic) represent the different perspectives on the story, the feeling of different throughlines? Which is which? I could the solid one being “objective” overall story, but I could also see the OS as the mosaic of may different characters.

Are the general circular patterns supposed to be like quad-ified yin-yang? (with a second quad-yin-yang inside them, does that represent the Issue level and Problem level?)

#10

I don’t know. I do know that the original had been done as a work of art (my take on it from what the artist said, 20 years ago). So, you know how art goes, at least 50% from the subconscious level. Just let your friend enjoy it on his subconscious level. That’s how it helped me grasp some aspects of the theory, way back when.

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#12

Hey @VIlle that sounds like my experience introducing my girlfriend to Dramatica as well…once you bring in real life, it’s hard to be skeptical about what the theory demonstrates.

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#13

Wouldn’t mind hearing a bit more @jhull ! Later, my girfriend had an even better response: “You know, I should write my thesis about Dramatica as a tool in psychology!”

#14

My girlfriend and I spent some time last year pointing out each other’s blind spots using the Table of Story Elements - essentially acting as Influence Characters to each other. There was one quad in particular that made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever–and it was exactly where I was hiding something I didn’t feel comfortable dealing with.

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#15

Hey Jim, when you say that quad made no sense whatsoever, what do you mean exactly? You couldn’t see how the elements in the quad related to each other? Or do you even mean the individual elements’ definitions didn’t make sense?

I’m just wondering what we should look for, to find our own blind spots.

#16

Perhaps the forest from the trees, is at play?

#17

That’s eerily similar to[quote=“jhull, post:14, topic:819, full:true”]
My girlfriend and I spent some time last year pointing out each other’s blind spots using the Table of Story Elements - essentially acting as Influence Characters to each other. There was one quad in particular that made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever–and it was exactly where I was hiding something I didn’t feel comfortable dealing with.
[/quote]

That’s eerily similar to what I realized after describing her the “story”: I was her impact character with her as Change MC; afterwards, I realized by changing her to Steadfast, my Critical Flaw was something she’s pointed out to me in the past. I think it’s pretty much the definition of a good relationship when you can play each other’s impact characters.

#18

… as long as it doesn’t turn into a shouting match? Or other bad parts of a relationship, like constantly criticizing each other with little to no support?

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#19

I think shouting matches define just one set of possible IC/MC relationships – the SS Thrughline can take many forms, sometimes loud, sometimes subtle. Personally, I don’t see the role of an Impact Character as being a critic per se, although in certain stories that is the case.

What I meant was, being each other’s “impact characters” in a relationship is inherently better than being silent and keeping up the status quo; to me, that’s what makes a relationship win-win and a chance to grow for both parties. It turning into a shouting match depends on how the people involved choose to “write their story”, just as the type of IC/MC relationships in fiction depend on how authors choose to write them – loud or subtle.

Sorry, BTW, I feel like I’e hijacked this thread a bit.

#20

When I mean they didn’t make sense, I mean the four of them together literally looked like a giant black hole to me. I couldn’t see how they could relate to one another. Those same elements in other quads made perfect sense to me and of course, I knew the definitions of them.

But for some reason, seeing them together just didn’t feel right. Why would they be together?

And the reason is: they represent a big personal issue for me.

And here’s the crazy part – even knowing that, it’s still difficult to work through them or make sense of what they mean.

And this was 6 months ago…

#21

Wow. Thanks Jim. That gives me a lot to think about.

Does that quad tend to come up in stories that you want to write? I know you’ve said before that our subconscious tends to home in on our own personal issues in the stories we want to tell…

I looked at the Theme Browser to see if there might be similar quads for me, but I think at the Problem level I will need more experience with Dramatica, since many of those terms I can’t quite “feel” yet, but maybe more due to lack of experience than personal issues.

#22

Totally avoid it at all costs. As I long as I don’t acknowledge it, it doesn’t exist!

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#23

My most simplistic intro is to say Dramatica gives you a set of semantic terms that helps you understand the story you’re trying to create. It helps you develop your story with a deeper understanding of all your story’s dramatic elements; characters, plot, themes… It’s a complicated system and can be mind boggling, but it really helps you discover your story faster than you would through endless rewrites.

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#24

In med-school, my professor used to say to be great at anything, it takes three steps.
See one.
Do one.
Teach one.

I feel it is necessary to help people “see” the benefits of Dramatica by actually showing them successful examples they can relate to. Say, a fantasy writer could be referred to Tracy Hickman as a very successful example.

Then you encourage them to try the theory in its easiest form. Let’s not talk about things like PSR’s and so on. Just basic throughlines. Tailor a simple exercise for them( We can all come up with this in the forum). Let them actually feel like they can “do” it.

Then in the process we “teach” them. And probably leave them to “teach” other writers(Excitement is a powerful motivator).

One of the reasons I’m really digging deep into the theory is that I’m writing an Epic Fantasy book. When it’s a global success, I’ll tell everyone (By example) about one of my secret weapons. Dramatica.

Stay blessed guys.

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#25

I just happened on this article which seems great for those new to Dramatica. It takes the well-known idea that a story’s main character should have issues separate from the “A story”, along with a clue Harold Ramis gave in an interview about Groundhog Day, to really pull you into the way Dramatica works.

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