Issue and variations in a 4 acts Story

#1

I’m a little confused about how should I place my issue, counterpoint, and the “two items that provide a context for evaluating them.”, in a 4 act structure.

For example: in my MC Activity throughline the issue is Wisdom v.s. Enlightenment; should I explore Wisdom in the first act, Enlightenment in the second act, Skill in the third, and Experience in the fourth?

What about the signposts?

Should I explore Wisdom in signpost 1, Enlightenment in the second act, Skill in the third, and Experience in the fourth?

#2
  1. If Wisdom is the Issue of the MC throughline, then it would be dealt with in every signpost.
  2. Search for “28 Magic Scenes” + Dramatica, and maybe that will help you out.
  3. It’s a bit weird that you commented on the other thread one year after its last post which had a similar subject matter, bringing up the issues throughout the story.
  4. If it doesn’t give you any order, then it’s likely that you have to decide for yourself. The theory doesn’t tell you in which order to present the throughlines either. It’s your decision.
#3

I’m not 100% on this issue either as far as the theory is concerned. I’ve read/seen youtube videos that say there’s a couple different ways this could be handled. I think the idea is not to show both in the same sign post or journey because it might start to feel like your hitting your audience in the head with it. So you might show Wisdom in Sign Post 1 and explore Enlightenment in Journey 1. Then you could show Enlightenment in SP2 and explore Wisdom in J2.

However, if you look at the Plot Sequence report, it will suggest that the part of your story focused on Doing should explore Enlightenment, Wisdom, Skill, and Experience. The other three parts would each explore the four issues under them (Understanding would explore Instinct, Senses, Conditioning, and Interpretation, etc.). But the idea, as i understand it, is to explore those issues as they relate to your stories issues. So in your example, you would explore Instinct vs Conditioning as it relates to Wisdom vs. Enlightenment. Although, I could be misunderstanding all of that.

However, I also believe that the idea is not to worry too much about the strict order of things at that point as, if you have the issues in there and the Throughlines and Concerns are all there, the audience will be able to follow your argument. Any holes created at that level by having things out of order are not detrimental to the story the way they would be at the higher levels and are meant to be explored according to the authors taste.

#4

I think if you focus on telling your story in such a way that only Wisdom is explored in the first act, it will feel weird and sterile.

Dramatica tends to be about relationships between things, so I think a better way to approach this question is to ask, “What does Wisdom vs. Enlightenment look like in this scene from the perspective of Skill or Enlightenment?”

#5

Hello Gregolas, thank you very much. I’m aware this sounds too prescriptive; but I was interested in soliciting a official statement by maybe Chris or Jim, as well as expert user like yourself.

The fact that the PSR suggest that makes it even more complicated!

#6

Hello there. You talk about scene, which is interesting; what about scene in the perspective of the Signposts?

For instance, should I craft a scene with Wisdom vs. Enlightenment from the perspective of Skill or Enlightenment while also addressing signpost#1?

#7

Hello Bob.
I don’t know what you’re accusing me of in #3.
Why is it even weird? I always try, before create a new thread, to see if there’s a similar one already in place.

When I paid attention to the date, I decided to open a new one.
Guilty here :slight_smile:

#8

I am of two minds about the whole thing.

I think you should do some serious brainstorming, without taking into account, what something like, [quote=“holybuble, post:6, topic:766”]
a scene with Wisdom vs. Enlightenment from the perspective of Skill or Enlightenment while also addressing signpost#1
[/quote]

would look like.

Then I would treat this as fertilizer. I would know it’s there, and I would set it aside and let it influence my plotting without trying to force it.

#9

Hi @holybuble,
I want to preface this by stating that it’s from my point of view only, based on my own writing process which might be very different from yours. And I’m certainly no expert (at Dramatic nor at writing). But I hope it can help.

I have the feeling that if you make sure that Wisdom is really the MC Throughline Issue, as in, there is a whole bunch of personal conflict for the Main Character stemming from something to do with Wisdom or its lack, that the rest of it will just naturally fall into place. Try writing down a paragraph or two about how Wisdom is a source of real conflict for your MC, while keeping the counterpoint of Enlightenment in mind as a counterpoint (i.e. not the source of conflict per se but something that pops up from time to time, maybe causing trouble or maybe not). Completely forget about Skill and Experience while doing this.

Then afterward, go and look at what you wrote, and I bet Skill and Experience will be in there somewhere.

Here, let’s try it:

Mark is considered something of a guru of java programming in his company; he’s even given presentations at JavaOne. He knows how to apply the latest technologies and which software trends to ignore because they’re just flashes in the pan. But lately, his new hobby of triathlon has taken all of his drive away, and he’s just not interested in programming anymore. His guru status has become a huge problem for him as he no longer wants to prepare lunch-and-learns and take the time to mentor people; yet that is part of his role at work so he has to keep doing it. This gets him into big trouble as he doesn’t prepare properly and gives the newly hired junior programmers the wrong advice, causing them to build a huge security flaw into their new app. Luckily, Simon the security architect is able to detect the problem and quickly patch it before any hackers compromise it. But this incident causes him to start looking into Mark and he realizes Mark is taking advantage of the company by spending several hours of his work day in triathlon training while saying he is at offsite meetings.

Okay, maybe not all that compelling but you can see where Experience (new hires lack it) and Skill (the security architect’s ability) sort of come into it. Granted, those terms were in my head as I brainstormed, but this was just a quick exercise. I don’t see Enlightenment yet, but you can see how adding it would add to the story, e.g. what if Simon has enough insight to recognize that Mark’s sudden jump into triathlon is as an escape from his ongoing divorce battles, something like that. Or maybe (to keep the conflict up) someone else has that insight, and tells Simon not to report Mark, but Simon does anyway…

So maybe, depending on the type of writer you are, it might be good to actually think about Skill and Experience when writing (perhaps if looking for inspiration) – but maybe not. It could be that the best use of the advice about the “two items that provide a context” might be as a way to check later, if you feel like something is wrong or missing from your MC or MC throughline.

Anyway, just my long-winded two cents.

#10

holybuble, i’m no expert. I’m still learning several new things about this theory every day. Was just jumping in with my input as I was also interested in the answer to your question as well as whatever thoughts anyone might have about my own response. Like many others, I’m curious about the numbers aspect of it all, whether it’s meant to be considered or not. I’m currently going through an old idea to see if I can encode everything the way the PSR suggests so it was great timing to come across your question. I’d love to see some responses from all the experts as well.

#11

That was inspiring; thank you very much.