My problem with Problem

theory
#1

I’m having trouble with defining what the problem is and how it relates to the Outcome.

The Dramatica Comic Book says:
The “Problem” is the source of all the inequities troubling your characters. Its opposite is the “Solution.” There’s also the Symptom and Response. The Problem is like a disease in the story. If everyone could see the Problem clearly, they’d solve it. But they don’t because they’re busy with the Symptom of the Problem. They try to treat the Symptom with the Response. But this treatment won’t cure the Problem… Only the Solution can do that. The Problem is finally recognized some time near the climax. “Success” replaces the Problem with the Solution. “Failure” doesn’t.

No confusion so far. They notice Symptom (or ‘the lie they believe’) and they think that is the problem to be solved. So they try Response. That doest solve much. Then they realize the real Problem, and either succeed or fail in dealing with that. Clear as it can be.

However, the Theory Book says:
Although easily tempered by degree, Success or Failure describes whether the Overall Story Characters achieve what they set out to achieve at the beginning of the story. If they do, it is Success. If they don’t, Failure. There is no value judgment involved. The Overall Story Characters may learn they don’t want what they thought they did, and in the end not go for it. Even though they have grown, this is a Failure—they did not achieve what they originally intended.

Do you see the contradiction? The problem they set out to achieve at the beginning might very well be the lie they believe—the Symptom. So when they have a solution for the Symptom, but not for the actual Problem, the Outcome is Failure according to the Comic Book, but it is Success according to the Theory Book.

So which one is it?

#2

As far as I have gathered, the outcome relates to the story goal (which is also the OS Concern), not the problem. It is through choosing to adopt the solution that allows the story goal to be achieved.

#3

A Problem motivates what the cast wants to achieve, but it is not the achievement itself. In this case the Theory book is describing the Goal: how the protagonist hopes to counter the central inequity.

I asked @chuntley about this very issue and he responded:

“The story solution resolves the inequity driving the Overall Story throughline. This is independent of whether or not the Goal has been achieved.”

I think this allows for the Goal to be “wrong,” per se. In How to Train Your Dragon, the vikings learn to accept dragons as comrades (OS Solution - Acceptance). But the original goal of “training the next generation of dragon killers” does not succeed – the young vikings become dragon riders instead (Outcome - Failure). The inequity is resolved, practically in spite of the Goal.

Problem/Solution in Failure Stories
#4

This is even more confusing. I asked which is right: the theory book or the comic. Are you trying to say that neither is right? And the Goal can be ‘The Past’. How can ‘The Past’ be achieved?

#5

Depends on how you encode it. It could be burying the past, it could be unraveling the past, whatever you want.

3 Likes
#6

From the Dramatica Dictionary:

“A Goal is that which the Protagonist of a story hopes to achieve. As such, it need not be an object. The Goal might be a state of mind or enlightenment; a feeling or attitude, a degree or kind of knowledge, desire or ability.”

http://dramatica.com/dictionary/goal

I believe the Theory Book is more correct regarding your question, but that’s just my take.

#7

Ummm, any time travel story ever. The goal could be changing the past or undoing the past. Or it could just be coming to terms with the past. I don’t want my past trauma/relationships/status/memories --whatever-- to hold me back anymore

2 Likes
#8

I think the easiest way to think about achieving what they set out to achieve at the beginning is this: they want the inequity to go away, so they go out to achieve that.

At first, they do it by attempting the Response. Then, by discovering and attempting the Solution.

I don’t think the theory book is saying, “They are hungry so they want a burger” and success means they get a burger. It means they are no longer hungry.