Not all illustrations are born the same

#1

So, as you know, I’m really, really a noob wrt Dramatica.

One idea that is slowly gelling in my mind is that while Dramatica tells you to use illustrations which have something to do with “X”, not all illustrations are the same. There’s an extra amount of discernment required. Just selecting whatever illustrations first come to mind will leave a somewhat random feel to the story. If Dramatica was the scope on a bow which showed you where the bullseye is, every illustration having to do with “X” lies near the bullseye (or, if you’re really lucky and patient, you might find an illustration IN the bullseye).

Does that make any sense? Like I said, I’m very, very much a noob when it comes to Dramatica and this idea is kinda vague.

#2

I’m not new, but often struggle with the same thing. Jim is very good at doing these. At one point we came up with some crutches for me to use to get them written. But, they come off mechanical if you don’t know the concept.

So, the key is that each storypoint showcases conflict and each storypoint is related to the other.

Consider two things that create tension because they are separated despite being connected and the obstacles that prevent them from being one thing (apart or together). Each storypoint needs to show that potential which implies conflict. “X” is simply where the potential for conflict lies to write that storypoint and the gist that you make or borrow for “X” is a prompt to encode the conflict.

If you try posting an example, of a single story point, we can give you feedback about how well it is justified.

#3

I agree with @crayzbrian – some example story points will help. More than one if possible, if you want to get across how they seem disjointed or random when used together. Feel free to throw in some “bad” examples.

Don’t forget that Dramatica is just a tool for understanding your story better. The illustrations are really only for you. They definitely don’t have to be perfect before you start your story; I wouldn’t expect them to. I think it would be better to leave some blank rather than shoehorn something in that doesn’t fit what you want.

#4

Well, here’s an example. I have Understanding with a variation of Clojure. I originally had the illustration of a Museum exhibit being closed. But, a much more apropriate illustration has to do with the end of the world coming sooner than expected.
Both illustrations have to do with Clojure, but one is better than the other one.

#5

OH! I see where you’re coming from now!

Yeah, Dramatica does not remove the need for artistry and good storytelling. That’s what is so great about it – it’s not formulaic at all because the elements you work with still have limitless possibilities. Always, always, you’re putting your own stamp on the story (rather than following some formula that says your MC has to save a cat here).

Note: I do think you could use both of those illustrations if you want. The museum exhibit being closed could sort of foreshadow the end of the world…

#6

So, in each case the inequity is not clear. A museum closing doesn’t imply conflict. A museum closing while your friends are trapped inside and want out is an Inequity because they can’t both be inside and outside of it at the same time.

Likewise, the world ending sooner than expected is not a problem unless you can tell us why. So, a world ending sooner than Expected for a forty year old virgin who’s determined to have sex before he dies would be an Inequity because both things can’t coexist.

OMG I sound like @jhull :sweat_smile:.

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#7

If you’re using Understanding and Closure in the same scene, that means that Closure is coming from your PSR, right? I think that’s supposed to be more of a “from inside the story” look at events. If the museum is closing in OS SP 1, the characters inside the story may not know about the end of the world just yet so I actually think it’s fine. Although they may see the end of the world coming because of the theft of the prophecy (assuming we’re talking about the same YA Norse gods story). The difference between using the museum or the world might be that the museum eases your audience into a story about the end of the world (kind of foreshadowing like Mike suggested) whereas the other option dumps your audience right into the action.

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#8

Right, as @Gregolas mentioned, he’s getting Closure from the PSR so it’s not necessary for it to be a source of conflict objectively.

#9

For clarity, the OS crew know that the end of the world is coming. That is why the Norse Gods have incarnated on Earth. They incarnated on Earth and were born from mothers so that they could grow up and lead the armies of men in Ragnarok. What the Understanding + Clojure scene would do is show that the end is coming sooner than expected. The Norse Gods are supposed to have enough time to grow into adults. Because the end is coming sooner than expected, the NG are actually unprepared teenagers (which makes this a Young Adult story).

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#10

I would think you would still want the objective characters to sense the inequity from their own point-of-view - so it’s not just closing, but a dilemma resulting because of closure.

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#11

Here’s another question, again, I mean this respectfully. How long does it take for someone to learn and really grok Dramatica the way that you, mlucas, Gregolas, etc. get it?

#12

I had actually started to write that in my post, but then balked, wondering if that’s always true for PSR items. Since PSR Variations are the PRCO circuit of that act/signpost, is it necessary that the characters see them all as sources of trouble or dilemmas? I thought the Current, for example, might show up as back-and-forth actions and reactions (a bit like the Response story point). And Outcome might be “good” or “bad” depending on the character’s point of view…

That’s why I thought the language of the PSR was kind of vague “Understanding is explored in terms of Closure…”

#13

laughs

You ever feel like you were listening to a deGrasse Tyson lecture and wished to God you spoke the language?

PRCO?

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#14

Super honored to be included, but on a list of people who get Dramatica, my name shouldn’t appear in the same sentence with Jim’s or Mike’s.

#15

It depends on how much time you devote to it. @mlucas went all out and in 4 months turned out probably one of the most comprehensive storyform analysis of all (The Princess Bride). He’s not “wrong” about the Plot Sequence Report, I’ve just found that practically speaking you’ll get even more bang for your buck if can encode an inequity in there like Brian did (which I agree, was an amazing feat!)

I’m 22+years and I still screw up occasionally (La La Land felt like a Personal Tragedy to me, so what?!) but I like learning and re-learning the theory, so I don’t mind.

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#16

Who is to say you were wrong?

#17

He’s just saying his hunch didn’t match the storyform. Sometimes we bring our subjective viewpoints to things and we miss something that we feel should be a slam dunk.

I’m at about 1 year and 8 months now. I would say @mlucas and I started about the same time, but he picked it up much faster. I’m still working on my consulting analysis because I wanted to use it to learn some extra things. What is really cool about the group though is that we all help each other with our blindspots and we are all better writers because of that.

I agree that you can use te PSR subjectively. But, I would always make sure it also is used objectively regardless of who knows what in a scene.

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#18

But, who decides what the storyform really, truly is? If one person says it is a Personal Tragedy and another person says it isn’t, then who gets to decide who is right? Even Dramatica can be wrong in as much as it was written by mortals who are, by definition, fallible.

#19

Because in a room full of people who spend an enormous amount of time learning the theory—their arguments proved to be more concrete and effective.

The storyform is something that only works when ALL the pieces work. I could easily make a case for Failure Good IF I ignored every other indication otherwise (primarily Signpost order).

In addition, the dream sequence I was basing my storyform on proves to be a tale, not a story. No actual argument was being made with her dream sequence.

It’s super obvious really — when you’re in a room of five or six really right people who ALL say duh, it’s a Success story well then, it’s time to drop the ego and figure out what you’re missing.

You should listen to the podcast—it’s really illuminating. I learned a ton.

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#20

This is a weird statement. Is Carbon or Iron or Copper wrong?

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