Plot Sequence and PRCO/TKAD/1234

Long Plot Sequence/PRCO question.

Hi everyone. I’ve been using Dramatica for quite some time (since version 1) and I find the theory to be endlessly fascinating as well as one of the best brainstorming tools I’ve ever come across. I’m principally a screenwriter with a script in development as a part of the 2018 Sundance Screenwriter’s Lab. I used Dramatica to create it so I know it works!

I’ve recently been studying James Hull’s ideas about PRCO/TKAD as it relates to scene construction and I love the way it integrates into the existing PSR framework. It’s truly like the missing link for Dramatica users.

Recognizing there are many ways to approach a story, I’m a disciple of Armando’s ideas about Plot Sequence Report. I find it’s the easiest way to lay out a story and I use it in a myriad of ways to brainstorm my outline. It’s wonderful that PRCO/TKAD merges seamlessly with the Plot sequence report to better inform my story at the scene and event level. However, it’s also true that a document with that much information can be cumbersome. So, in order to speed up the outline construction process, I created a document which I’d love to share with the group when I get upload privileges.

Dramatica Variations by Quad with Associated Elements for PRCO/TKAD

This simple doc lays out the all the relevant variation quads in their dynamic order so they can easily be tailored to any PSR. I also included the related elements below each variation with definitions (from the Dramatica dictionary) in tow. Like many others I find I’m always re-learning the definitions so it’s helpful to have them handy in the actual document. A key part of writing is task continuity so it doesn’t pay to keep stopping to look stuff up. I’ll upload it when I have access.

My question about the PSR and PRCO information surround the usage in a Z pattern sequence.
(note for conversation-sake, I’m considering an arrangement like -

Fact
Security to Threat
Fantasy

As a ‘sequence’ in the classical sense that the term refers to a group of scenes advancing a Signpost. I know other people use it differently, but for the sake of this question, let’s just say that’s how I approach it.

Using the addition of the PRCO/TKAD for each variation my sequence might look like:

Fact: belief in something real
• Proven - a rating of knowledge based on corroboration
• Unproven - a rating of knowledge that has not been tested
• Accurate - being within tolerances
• Non-accurate - not within tolerances

Security: an evaluation of one’s defenses and protections
• Effect - the specific outcome forced by a cause
• Cause - the specific circumstances that lead to an effect
• Result - the ramifications of a specific effect
• Process - the mechanism through which a cause leads to an effect

TO

Threat: an evaluation of potential negative forces
• Theory - an unbroken chain of relationships leading from a premise to a conclusion
• Hunch - a conclusion based on intuition
• Expectation - a conclusion as to the eventual effect of a particular cause
• Determination - a conclusion as to the cause behind a particular effect

Fantasy: belief in something unreal
• Trust - an acceptance of knowledge as proven without first testing its validity
• Test - a trial to determine something’s validity
• Ending - coming to a conclusion
• Unending - a continuance without cessation

And that seems very clear. But the difficulty I encounter when using this process is the middle scene Security to Threat. This kind of slide scene is very frequent in the PSR. But using the PRCO/TKAD method often results in a bulging middle scene in a sequence as I try to incorporate all of the elements.

Now, in truth, I usually just pick and choose between the relevant elements for my scene. It doesn’t pay to have every middle scene in a Z pattern running long.

But, mostly out of curiosity, I’m looking for best practices/advice to combine the corresponding elements for both Security AND Threat in a scene. While I expect that there may be many ways to answer this question, I would love to know what you all may have found.
Some combinations I’ve tried.

  1. Pick one or the other (Security OR Threat.) This seems obvious and I very often find one of the variations isn’t necessary.
  2. Combine the two and use the slide as the scene’s mid-point. As I mentioned above this results in very long scene and it calls into question the nature of a “complete scene” since technically the arc of the scene now has two PRCO/TKAD element sets.
  3. Action/Reaction - Divide each event into action and reaction beats that contain the elements dynamically. This can be a fun and fast way to work all the info into a scene.

Example:
Security
• Potential - Effect vs Cause
• Resistance - Result vs Process

Threat:
• Current - Theory vs Hunch
• Outcome - Expectation vs Determination

  1. Mix and Match - Just grab elements that seem like they work for the scene from each variation’s elements and create the transition.

While I know this may be overthinking the process, rest assured I love to use this to brainstorm my scenes and I get a lot out of the method. But with so many other facets of this theory taking definite employable forms, I suspect there may a smart way to approach the info on the scene level.

And, of course, if the answer is just a general “it’s up to you, every story is different” that’s acceptable as well. In that case, please just consider this lengthy question as an expression of my fascination with the theory overall.

Many Thanks and Happy Writing

Chris

3 Likes

Hey Chris,

Thanks for writing in and sharing your process.

Super short answer—you’re looking at Time and treating it like Space.

In short, the three sequences are most like Journeys, not Signposts. All three sequences run the same length—that middle one isn’t longer because it has two variations—you just have a clear idea of where it starts and where it ends.

So if each sequence took up 10 pages:

Fact would be the first 10
Security-Threat the second ten
Fantasy the last ten

With Variations you always want to be thinking of the flow of energy through the narrative—not individual chunks. When you do you kinda lose their importance and what’s best about them.

Instead of treating them like objects—treat them like processes. Look to the sequences before and the sequences after and write one long journey that touches upon these points along the way.

Also, I wouldn’t assume that the same elements that would fall under the variations in the model at rest would still be there and/or in the same order as the justified model of your story. Some will be out of place just as much as the Variations are out of place in the PSR.

Congrats on Sundance—I can’t wait to see your work up on the big screen!

3 Likes

Hey James,

Thanks for the great answer. Of course like any discussion of Dramatica, the answer often generates more questions. Would you mind if I followed up?

It makes complete sense to view the PSR progressions as a flow versus static and, yes, that is how I classically have written my scripts with Dramatica. I traditionally used the element level for character interactions, but your advancement of PRCO/TKAD/1234 was a whole new way to look at the element level and I love how it extends the brainstorming possibilities in new ways. I know it’s not yet part of the official Dramatica canon but I hope it will be soon.

1st Question - If the “at rest” model of the Theme Browser doesn’t display a suggestion of how to argue a particular Variation at the element level, what do you think is a best practice for locating the associated quad?

Again, I’m sure part of this answer is, just choose one because there’s no reason to attempt a perfect structure. But I can tell you it helps my writing process immensely to lay down a skeleton structure and then brainstorm against it. The same way you’d decorate an Xmas tree - you start with the lights THEN add the popcorn and colorful ornaments. Because I usually write stories about real life, I write my first outline based on the idea and then go back and see how it might fit into a story form. That way you can see what’s working and what might be missing or unnecessary. The PSR works like a charm for me. I like the inherent “Montage Theory” idea of comparing one signpost to the next and so forth to arrive at a story’s meaning. Like Armando, I treat Variations as the scenes that compose a sequence. I just string them together between my signposts. So, knowing what Dramatica indicates for the TKAD elements associated with the Variations would help my flow quite a bit. I would suggest, if a report of all this info is too lengthy, that the “at rest” model only exist when a new file is opened and empty, and then once it’s spun completely, the Story Engine displays the Theme Browser with the associated Variations/ Elements of your unique story form.

2nd Question - Regarding the Static Model at rest, are the elements that are associated with a particular Variation intended to define that Variation? It seems kind of odd that they would be arbitrary because…

3rd. Question - Theme Browser - In the Class/Type/Variation/Element levels the colors in the model seem to correspond to their position in the overall scheme. Example: Situation is upper left yellow - The Past sits in the upper left corner of Situation, also Yellow. Knowledge sits in the upper left of Fact and it’s really yellow. Is this color indication supposed to suggest it’s relevance/connection to a particular Class? You suggest in your PRCO/TKAD ideas that a complete scene will have each of the associated Types represented so this seems to be true.

Moreover, (and this is purely conjecture) because the PSR is supposed to represent the story from the inside, could it suggest the “model spin” between the type and variation levels is also suggesting subtext?

Example from my PSR - OS (Activity) Signpost 1 - Type: Doing, Variations: Fact, Security, Threat Fantasy

To me this suggests:

  1. The Signpost of Doing is being influenced ‘subtextually’ by the Situation through line.
    or
  2. If you further parse according to placement and color, it suggests that each Variation Quad is also positioned relevant to it’s Class, thus Fact Security Threat and Fantasy are actually the Activity quad of the Situation Class because they are placed in the Upper Right and color influenced by the Activity Type.

I’m currently using the second suggestion because it allows every Signpost/Sequence to be ‘influenced’ uniquely by another and, as with all things Dramatica, it’s great for brainstorming. But I’m also perfectly okay if this is just my strange way of using the software.

Thanks in advance for tolerating these long questions. I’m in the middle of a new draft so I’d love to be able to proceed with a bit more confidence.

Lots to answer here…and forgive me, I took several passes and ended up accidentally answering points from your first post…

Yes, the position of every quad carries a meaningful relationship with other elements within that quad. Past is the Knowledge of Universe. Memory is the Knowledge of Mind. The model is fractal (and fractal!), which means every quad is simply another iteration of KTAD.

No, the colors don’t signify anything more than a way to distinguish different elements within a quad.

In regards to PRCO/SRCA:

I can tell you it’s built into the Atomizer–so you’ll have access to it eventually.

Totally agree. I use it with all my clients and on my own writing projects. Armando is the best!

Sounds like a useful tool…if only someone were to build something that did the very same thing…

You and I are very much alike.

One thing that stands out is your use of the word Scene. It’s labeled Plot Sequence Report for a reason–you can have several scenes within a sequence and I would suggest during this middle “bulge” you think of the sequence as having at least two individuals scenes that can address the various PRCO combinations.

This would be SUPER confusing to everyone and not at all productive. There are probably more effective means of producing this kind of work…

No. They’re not arbitrary, the children of an element are meant to describe the parent.

No. Funny you should mention this, because lately I’ve come to the conclusion that the Dramatica storyform is subtext. It defines–in no uncertain terms–what is at work behind the scenes and motivating each and every moment. I’ve been using this to describe Dramatica to others and people just get it–Dramatica is subtext.

Overall, the problem with an account of the arrangement of elements below the variations level in a justified story is the amount of accuracy. You’re talking about a point-of-view that is twice removed from reality. There’s no way it’s definitely true.

At least, no way to check it.

You’ve likely used the Plot Sequence incorrectly–everyone has and probably will continue to do so–but has it prevented you from writing something wholly original and unique to you? Not a chance. You ultimately decide what feels best to you because at that point you are closer to you as Author playing Audience rather than the Author setting down the storyform.

You’re probably ok going through the elements in a Z pattern–just know that you’ll get different emotional responses trying different directions. I started writing an article that explains all this, but got sidetracked with some things I think everyone will love.

So I’m not sure if I’ve been much of a help but hopefully it gives you a better idea of the scope of what you’re asking for. Personally I stick with the four Signposts and the sequences from the Overall Story ONLY–nothing else. It seems to be the perfect balance.

3 Likes

I largely look at the RS in these terms. I almost believe that you don’t have to say anything “out loud” about the RS and it will work itself out. Accepting that the entire storyform is subtext shouldn’t be too much of a stretch.

Afterall, the storyform is the essence. And the essence isn’t generally what you see on the surface directly.

1 Like

So, if my PSR says “(Obtaining) is explored in terms of Openness, Delay, Choice, Preconception.”, the Elements under these four Variations could be from a different quad? For example, Obtaining is first explored in terms of Openness, where Openness is explored in terms of Trust, Expectation, Determination, Test (Elements under the Desire Variation).

Would this be a valid example, @jhull ? If so, I assume the author could explore the PSR Variations with any Element quad, since that level of the storyform is reserved for the writer to configure? If not, what would you say is the best way to explore the Element layer when dealing with the PSR?

Hey James,

You wrote: I can tell you it’s built into the Atomizer–so you’ll have access to it eventually.

That’s great news. But are you saying that there IS a way to spin the model so that it correctly aligns the TKAD elements to their assigned variations? How does the Atomizer do that? Is there some sort of correlation we can apply with the existing Dramatica software?

You Wrote: Overall, the problem with an account of the arrangement of elements below the variations level in a justified story is the amount of accuracy. You’re talking about a point-of-view that is twice removed from reality. There’s no way it’s definitely true.

It seems logical to me that the elements below each variation are the logical arguments for that Variation. Just seems to be the easiest way to approach a scene without being completely arbitrary. Sometimes they’re hard to decipher but their definitely good good for brainstorming. In the event that one doesn’t work for me, I just stick with my idea for the Variation itself and construct the scene. It’s funny that the brainstorming at the Variation level often offers more insight than looking at the element level.

You wrote: You’ve likely used the Plot Sequence incorrectly–everyone has and probably will continue to do so–but has it prevented you from writing something wholly original and unique to you?

Yes, I’m completely happy to use the PSR the way I’m doing so. But it would help to know if there’s a better way. I find the other methods of script layout via Dramatica to be a bit too confusing and I really hate getting lost in the software. I’ve tried writing scripts using the Journey method and I always find they are missing information. It would be nice to see examples of successful process using all these approaches.

You wrote: No. Funny you should mention this, because lately I’ve come to the conclusion that the Dramatica storyform is subtext

Not sure I understand this from a physical writing perspective. Like most screenwriters I see subtext as what is implied but not said; forces acting upon one another other to produce new behavior/insight. However employing that in writing is also an act of planning so it helps to know when writing a scene where that ‘influence’ is coming from. I love the idea that comparing Signposts to one another via montage theory produces genuine subtext. Thus Doing influences How Things are Changing influences Developing a Plan…
I do believe that mastering sequences is the hidden art of screenwriting.

You wrote: So I’m not sure if I’ve been much of a help but hopefully it gives you a better idea of the scope of what you’re asking for. Personally I stick with the four Signposts and the sequences from the Overall Story ONLY–nothing else. It seems to be the perfect balance.

Could you clarify this process? It’s interesting but how do you create enough scenes in an act? What about the arc and evolution of the other through lines? This calls into question the idea of a dominant through line in a story that is served by the other through lines. I like the idea but how do you enact it? And yes, your thoughts are extremely helpful. It’s like trying to figure out how a magician does a trick and that’s always interesting.

Finally, I’d love to know how you think the objective character characteristics fit into you TKAD idea. I’ve just been identifying them throughout the elements of each scene and trying to employ that character if possible (or via handoff) It doesn’t always work because these objective characteristics often show up in through lines other than the OS but I think that’s part of the fact that TKAD is always present in a scene. What do you think?

I’d love to know this too. Great thread.

1 Like

Weird that you bring that up the same morning it’s occurring to me. Had this experience yesterday, I’m sure common to theory practitioners with more experience than I have. I was looking at the PSR and Bob’s Table of Scenes and the four suggested elements for the variation…then felt the emotional structure of the thing…and then the scene just emerged in my head because something inside me recognized the pattern match of the quad. It wasn’t conscious, had nothing to do with my brain thinking, hmm, this pattern seems familiar, I know just the scene that would illustrate it–that didn’t happen. I showed the scene to my editor and he nearly went through the roof, thought it was one of the best in the book so far. And I thought, this is exactly what subtext means, and this is why it works. The audience is getting in the reverse order we get as writers.

Anyway. Yeah. Subtext. Wow. Also drilling into the modalities quad this morning. This place is like the Masons, you get walked into deeper levels of knowledge but you have to stick around.

Can’t wait to see what the next fractal level after this one is :wink: You probably learn the names of the four muses, Quellestra, Uranda, Annasied, and Daphne.

1 Like

Just read Melanie’s definitive (and very short) article on PRCO etc. Besides subtext, the other image that came to mind, recalling my youth building computers, is building a circuit board.

I carefully read Jim’s note in one of the articles, the dangers of getting lost in this stuff, and took it to heart. Just spending the day mulling this over, then back to writing. Also took to heart his comment that dramatica scene structure is a lot less important than the the structure at higher levels.

I am glad other people have walked this road before me. This is tricky stuff.

As a random note, in one of the articles:

“Time to Discuss Time

Contrary to what many think, time is not strictly a progression of cause to effect. The idea that this happens, then that happens, and then finally that happens is a very linear way of looking at the universe. From another point-of-view, it all happens at once. What will be was, and what is will be.”

I suspect there’s a Doctor Who fan in the house:

DOCTOR: People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it’s more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey-wimey… stuff.

…which makes me grok the idea even more.

Your suspicions would be true.

Probably wouldn’t surprise you I have a T-shirt with the same exact quote on it. (And the 404s for NF used to say “Hello Sweetie”) :grin:

2 Likes

Yes there is a correct way. No the Atomizer can’t do it yet for you, but you’ll be able to track it on your own based on your own intuition.

This would probably be your best bet. As long as it doesn’t interrupt your flow of creativity and/or inspires great scenes, it’s working.

I have a 4k word article that describes an approach that I wrote a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately, I found it so compelling that it inspired me to build a whole bunch of new features for the Atomizer. I’ll be posting it as soon as I roll out the latest. Probably this week.

And is that implication random? Or is it rooted in the motivations and justifications of the characters? :grin: Dramatica defines the subtext of the narrative. Wonder Woman doesn’t come right out and say, “ hey, I want to learn about humanity and whether or not it’s worth saving, or fighting for.” Yet it’s underneath each and every scene, rolling like an almost inaudible hum throughout the entire narrative.

The PSR is not subtext—it’s a justified view of what appears to be the problem. The storyform is subtext. Under the surface. What’s really driving everything.

Saw A Quiet Place last night. Everything is on the surface. Nothing held back. Nothing kept in secret. Well. A little bit, but not enough. No storyform. No subtext. Nothing more than a great concept. It won’t be as successful as Get Out for this reason.

Objective character elements are separate from any concept of TKAD/PRCO. If you notice, each Throughline has its own complete collection of “characteristics”. Each plays out under its appropriate context. The whole TKAD thing is where the Author—where YOU—decide where you want narrative potentials to fall.

Lol excellent. Allons-y!

(I have the same t-shirt.)

1 Like

And whatever you do, don’t blink.

2 Likes

Will this article address the question in my post above? Any information would be appreciated! :slight_smile: @jhull[quote=“okcthunderx, post:6, topic:1640”]
So, if my PSR says “(Obtaining) is explored in terms of Openness, Delay, Choice, Preconception.”, the Elements under these four Variations could be from a different quad? For example, Obtaining is first explored in terms of Openness, where Openness is explored in terms of Trust, Expectation, Determination, Test (Elements under the Desire Variation).

Would this be a valid example, @jhull ? If so, I assume the author could explore the PSR Variations with any Element quad, since that level of the storyform is reserved for the writer to configure? If not, what would you say is the best way to explore the Element layer when dealing with the PSR?
[/quote]

1 Like

I know you asked Jim, but he’s a pretty busy guy and you seem to be chomping at the bit so I’ll try to answer.

I’m pretty sure you could pick any quad of elements below your Variation, and it would be just as valid as picking the one that normally “belongs” under that Variation. Actually even moreso, if you’re picking it based on your writer’s intuition or just what seems cool or fitting – at this level that’s more important anyway.

If you listen to one of Jim’s podcasts, he talks about how you’re using the storyform to show the audience a table, and the fact that it’s a table is really all you need to convey. Where at this level (exploring Elements below the PSR Variations) you’re actually trying to convey the wood-grain in the table. Regardless of whether the “perfect” structure would have a coarse or fine grain, it’s still going to look like a table.

4 Likes

Thanks @mlucas. Yeah, @jhull is doing a lot for this community, and I’m grateful for all of the content he publishes for our benefit.

With the PSR Variations, I have been using the “at rest” Elements under those Variations. This thread brought up some questions I had regarding the “correct” Elements for a certain PSR Variation. From what you have said, it seems like any Element quad may compliment that Variation, depending on the author’s intent. The main point was drilling down to find the “most correct” way to approach the Element layer for PSR Variations.

2 Likes

Thanks for answering all these questions Jim. I’m sure you get them often so I appreciate you taking the time. Look forward to great things from Narrative First and the Atomizer.

By the way here’s the doc I made with the Variations and their corresponding Elements in the grid via the “at rest model.” While not perfect, at least it’s a quick reference.

Dramatica Plot Sequence Variations and Elements.pdf (118.4 KB)

Chris

1 Like

Excellent - I like this a lot and it looks similar to what I’ve done with clients in the past. Thanks for sharing! (and you’re very welcome)

1 Like

sounds like I have to subscribe to atomizer for a look see :slight_smile:

1 Like