Z-Pattern, Novel length, etc

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Hmm. You have a couple options. You could increase the length of the scenes with extra detail and interaction. You could add little fluff scenes that don’t engage the storyform directly but flesh out the characters, their personality quirks, and their roles in the different throughlines. You could theoretically add a “subquest”–a mini-story where the characters do some extra stuff without moving forward much in the storyform. Or perhaps you could have a “reset loop” where things happen in the wrong direction, but then get undone. (You can’t do too many of those, though, or the audience will riot.)

Ultimately, though, it may be up to you. The theory is flexible enough that you can probably figure it out if you just start writing. (I kid, I kid. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: ) Honestly, it’s a good question. I was thinking about this exact thing when trying to write for longform media that go on indefinitely, like animated shows or soap operas. You need forward motion in the short term, but you also need to reset it every now and again, or else you’ll run out of space to grow. You need goals for the characters to pursue, but then having those goals recede each time the characters get close. Or, I suppose, you make the concept of the show vague enough that you can have characters revolving in and out of the story and start and finish plots whenever you want. (I believe that’s what the soaps do.)

Actually, it’s perfectly acceptable to recommend writing instead of worrying about the exact number of scenes you need for an effective story–especially in a discussion forum about Dramatica.

You’ll note that suggestions for doing so come from professional writers, with a proven track record of success, who know that crawling down the rabbit hole of the Plot Sequence Report or the individual Beats of a Scene–while illuminating and insightful–actually end up slowing down the learning process of using Dramatica to write better stories.

As @actingpower mentions, you’ll learn your own process and what works for you by actually doing it. There is no prescribed method when it comes to Sequences and Scenes and Chris and Melanie will be the first to tell you that the model might actually be incorrect at those resolutions.

In the future, please refrain from dictating who can and cannot comment on your posts.

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The primary thing when you take a sword in your hands is your intention to cut the enemy, whatever the means. Whenever you parry, hit, spring, strike or touch the enemy’s cutting sword, you must cut the enemy in the same movement. It is essential to attain this. If you think only of hitting, springing, striking or touching the enemy, you will not be able actually to cut him. ~Miyamoto Musashi, “The Book of Five Rings”

What this quote means for writing is, whatever theory and planning you do for your story, the primary goal must always be to get stuff written. It’s extremely easy to get into planning or theorycrafting, to the point where you’re more focused on pre-writing than actually writing. But doing that is like parrying your opponent when fencing without ever attacking in response. There are also certain things that you can only figure out through writing. Rather than trying to do everything exactly according to the theory, maybe it can be better to write first, then course-correct as you go.

And I guess my final point is, the Dramatica theory is designed around solving one specific problem: constructing and solving an argument. It has some advice about creating scenes based on its own theory, but I honestly believe that’s not its goal. You want to write 80 scenes in your novel? Go ahead! Dramatica doesn’t have any help for you. You’ve got to do it yourself.

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Lol, I get you. I’m kind of a similar personality. :stuck_out_tongue: Me, I’m an inchoate worldbuilder. I love coming up with characters and settings and plot sparks and whatnot. I could sit around all day coming up with X character living in Y culture doing Z things with Q friends. But that’s the problem: I can do it all day, but actually writing the dang story never comes up.

Like I said, I don’t think Dramatica is designed for creating every individual scene and event. I think it may even be intentionally foggy down there so that you can do exactly what I suggested previously: add or expand scenes! Trying to summon a specific formula out of the murk might just be the wrong idea. To go back to the fencing model, it’d be like trying to plan out every step in advance. At a certain point, your teacher will say, “Honestly, there’s no plan. You’ll have to change your steps based on your weight and whatever your opponent does. It’s something that’s a little different each time.”

And in that case, “Shut up and write” is really the answer, as much as it sucks to hear it. Or perhaps more nicely, “Don’t worry about it; whatever you do is probably gonna be fine.” If it’s not, you can figure it out afterwards.

EDIT: Oh, though I will take offense to your second sentence. Just because I’m being good cop to Mr. Hull’s somewhat-less-good cop doesn’t mean he’s not a good writer.

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5000… :confused: When do you sleep?! XD Well, in that case, you’re good! But my other point still stands. Your intuition about scene structure is probably sufficient for this sort of thing. What you can do is write it (or make your outline), then use Dramatica to fill in holes. Like, maybe you need to demonstrate your MC Crucial Element more, or you need a scene in Act 2 reminding the readers of the Consequence or the Limit. It may just be easier to find those holes in editing than during the writing process.

Not only is this combative, its non-productive. You’re quickly becoming super annoying. Stop complaining about what the Dramatica app can and cannot do and stop complaining about what writers with decades of experience with Dramatica say is a more efficient use of your time. Either try and find a way to be a productive member of this community or you’re out of here.

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