# Analysis of Raiders of Lost Ark **URL:** \ **Category:** Analysis and Review\ **Created:** [March 4, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307 "2015-03-04T02:27:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LLou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@LLou](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/LLou)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/1 "2015-03-04T02:27:16Z")
After the Big Bang Theory episode where Amy tells Sheldon that Indiana Jones is irrelevant to the story, I was wondering if anyone would be interested in doing one here? Do you agree with these answers to the 12 questions and character roles (to get the analysis started? EDITED from comments: 1. MC Resolve: CHANGE 2. MC Growth: INDY/BELLOQ: STOPS USING HIS STANDARDS INDY/RELIGION: STARTS BELIEVING 3. MC Approach: Do-er 4. MC ProbSolv: Logical 5. S.Driver: Action 6. S.Limit:OPTIONLOCK 7. S.Outcome: Success 8. S.Judgement: INDY/BELLOQ: BAD INDY/RELIGION: GOOD 9. O.Domain: Action 10. O.Concern: Obtaining 11. O.Issue: Self Interest 12. O.Problem: Pursuit MC: Indiana Jones IC: Belloq Protagonist: Belloq Antagonist:Nazis Guardian: ? THE ARK ?? Contagonist: Monkey, Major Toht (Nazi) Sidekick: Sallah, Ships captain Skeptic: ? INDY? Emotion: Marion Reason: Indiana Jones ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/2 "2015-03-04T04:05:22Z")
I like everything but the Timelock … what was it? ( **EDIT:** _Just realized you had Steadfast down for Resolve … it’s Change._) Also note that there are two stories going on in _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ - you have the Indy/Belloq story (What would you do for history?) and the Indy/Arc story (Religion real or hokey-pokey nonsense). In both, Indy Changes but the former is Bad whereas the latter is Good. The second one essentially “rights” the Badness of the 2nd (he sacrifices keeping the Arc from the Nazis in order to save his girlfriend … essentially doing what is wrong for humanity by giving the Arc over to the Nazis). ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/3 "2015-03-04T04:07:26Z")
Could Indy be the guardian? It’s been so long ago, since I’ve seen it. ---
**Author:** ![Alejandro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Alejandro](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Alejandro)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/4 "2015-03-04T15:54:42Z")
Two stories. I had never thought of that one for Raiders. Re: Story Limit. I think it’s optionlock: who will find the location first, then who gets to open it/use it (or prevent its use). ---
**Author:** ![Infinite5ths](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/infinite5ths/32/170_2.png) [@Infinite5ths](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Infinite5ths)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/5 "2015-03-04T16:03:59Z")
I suggest **Indy’s father** as Skeptic. Though the father isn’t an on-screen character in the first film, his skepticism of (even condescension toward) Indy’s abilities and Indy’s approach to many things is clearly felt. In fact, that is one of the main themes developed in the third film (with Sean Connery in the role of father). It is hinted at many times throughout the trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![LLou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@LLou](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/LLou)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/6 "2015-03-04T16:48:34Z")
Yikes, no I hadn’t thought two stories through. Isn’t the timelock that they have to find the Ark before the Nazis do? why is it an option lock? How does Indy change? I don’t see that. I’m not sure what you mean what would you do for history? My thought would be that the opening scene sets the history – Belloq’s comment that again I take from you what you find. When I put this into Dramatica, I should use gists? I was looking at the “how to use Dramatica” thread from 7 months ago and was totally surprised to see the concept of using the gists instead of the traditional Dramatica vocabulary. Did I interpret that correctly? Also, I have some forms we use for those who don’t have the software. Do you want these uploaded and if so, where? ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/7 "2015-03-04T16:57:54Z")
In regards to the Timelock, how much time passes? You should be able to define it in a concrete amount of days/hours/minutes etc. The nature of a Timelock is to show the appropriateness of a certain approach given a definite time restraint. In regards to the Resolve, you can look at both stories: Story A: the Indy/Belloq argument (“It would only take a nudge to make you like me”), Indy doesn’t see himself giving up his set of standards to bed with the Nazis like Belloq … but then he does just that when he decides not to blow them all “back to God”. That’s Change/Bad. Story B: the Indy/Religion argument - which is handed off from Brody to Sallah to the Arc itself. In that story Indy starts out now believing in a lot of “hocus-pocus nonsense” but then ends up telling Marion to close her eyes (because now he does believe). That’s Change/Good. ---
**Author:** ![LLou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@LLou](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/LLou)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/8 "2015-03-04T17:52:38Z")
Thanks for the explanations and clarifications. Here is what comes from putting it in the software using the ‘A’ storyline of Indy/Belloq, And the “B” storyline Indy/Religion. It seems backwards to me? thoughts? And I’m totally lost on the Issues level now. So I went down and found IC (Belloq) a critical flaw of Self Interest and a solution of Hinder which filled in the rest of the storyform: Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/9 "2015-03-04T19:17:08Z")
For both stories, the Overall Story is in Activity with a Concern of Obtaining and a Problem of Pursuit. ---
**Author:** ![LLou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@LLou](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/LLou)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/10 "2015-03-04T21:00:30Z")
OK, now I’m confused again. How can story judgement of both good and bad and MC growth both start and stop end up with the same storyform? ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/11 "2015-03-04T22:13:43Z")
Some works have more than one _storyform_ in them. You’ll see this in massive epics like _Lord of the Rings_ and in longer, more complex films like _Jerry Maguire_. I’m assuming you’re new to looking at story through the eyes of Dramatica, in which case you should know that the Dramatica _storyform_ isn’t so much a roadmap for the story you want to write as much as it is a roadmap for the _argument_ you want to make. That is why they refer to a Dramatica story as a **Grand Argument Story**. A work can have more than one argument going on and thus, more than one storyform within it. When you look at _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ (which I really wouldn’t if you’re new to the theory’s concepts), you can see there are two separate arguments being made. One ends badly for the Main Character, the other good(ly). ---
**Author:** ![LLou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@LLou](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/LLou)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/12 "2015-03-05T00:26:49Z")
New, yes in understanding and no in time. I’ve read “the book” 4-5 times and read most of what was on the old site before this one was started, watched a lot of Melanie’s videos, a group of us tried analyzing some stories (followed analyses of Lawrence of Arabia, Toy Story, To Kill a Mockingbird, tried Up) but it’s been the blind leading the blind. I have the software (both Mac and Windows), I “get it” enough to have a gut feeling that it’s more powerful and includes all other approaches out there, but I don’t get it enough to understand how to apply it in other than having a MC/IC 4 throughlines, and archetypes, or how to apply it to make a compelling argument. I’d really like another “application” exercise? 10. I just finished watching Ida and will attend Tuesday (requested joining G+). We have a writers critique group here and I understand enough about Dramatica to see that the major problem with all the stories brought to the group is that there is no story goal, no argument and no impact character in most of them. I picked Raiders because it hasn’t been analyzed on the websites, is very well known, seems to be a common “storyform” in our critique group, because most were familiar with it, and it seems to be typical of what several members want to write (start with what is familiar and of interest). ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/13 "2015-03-05T04:12:32Z")
Got it. Yes if you want to do an analysis of _Raiders_ by all means do. My sense is that it is somehow incomplete. I know the two stories in it, but I think they somehow share the same Overall Story Throughline. Don’t get me wrong. The movie is awesome. I just don’t know if there is a complete argument being told there (though I could be wrong). The intent was to revive the old serials which in and of themselves were only tales. ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/14 "2015-03-05T05:21:23Z")
You might be right about it being incomplete. I remember sitting at the end of the film, “But…?” There seemed to be something missing, the whacking of the Nazis seeming rushed and slapped together for an end. Maybe Indy 4 became the end for the writer? ✏ ---
**Author:** ![geoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@geoff](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/geoff)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/15 "2015-03-10T02:19:13Z")
Wow. I’m so glad we’re tackling this classic film. Here are some thoughts. Indy would be steadfast and Marion would be change in terms of her relationship to Indy, or something more like opening up. I wonder if Beloq would be the Contagonist because he hinders both Indy and the Nazis. I can see him making the temptation argument with Indy several times. What about the unnamed Nazi with the facial scar? It’s tempting to make him either a sidekick or contagonist, too. I’ll think through this and see if I can figure out the signposts. The Goal would seem to clearly be Obtaining. That makes the Indy-Marion relationship be Changing One’s Nature. Um, perhaps that’s reflected in them warming up to each other. However, I could see Marion in Situation and more precisely in Progress because Indy has stepped back into her life, and prior to that Indy left her as a young girl (morality aside) and she hasn’t been progressing since being in the Himalayas (or wherever). Is the Goal to obtain the ark or probably is it to stop the re-enactment of the ritual at the climax? ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/16 "2015-03-10T18:58:11Z")
@geoff did you read anything I wrote? It seems like you’re just writing a stream-of-consciousness with no attempt to engage with what has already been discussed here before. ---
**Author:** ![geoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@geoff](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/geoff)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/17 "2015-03-11T01:34:10Z")
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean it to come off as disconnected. You mentioned two possible stories going on. I could go along with you on two RS through lines: one with Belloq and one with Marion. ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/18 "2015-03-11T13:42:12Z")
What kind of influence/impact does Marion have on Indy? What is her alternative paradigm? ---
**Author:** ![LLou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@LLou](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/LLou)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/19 "2015-03-12T05:58:04Z")
> [@LLou](#): > > 1. MC Resolve: CHANGE > 2. MC Growth: > INDY/BELLOQ: STOPS USING HIS STANDARDS > INDY/RELIGION: STARTS BELIEVING > 3. MC Approach: Do-er > 4. MC ProbSolv: Logical > 5. S.Driver: Action > 6. S.Limit:OPTIONLOCK > 7. S.Outcome: Success > 8. S.Judgement: > INDY/BELLOQ: BAD > INDY/RELIGION: GOOD > 9. O.Domain: Action > 10. O.Concern: Obtaining > 11. O.Issue: Self Interest > 12. O.Problem: Pursuit > > MC: Indiana Jones > IC: Belloq > Protagonist: Belloq > Antagonist:Nazis > Guardian: ? THE ARK ?? > Contagonist: Monkey, Major Toht (Nazi) > Sidekick: Sallah, Ships captain > Skeptic: ? INDY? > Emotion: Marion > Reason: Indiana Jones (To summarize initial post and changes from subsequent suggestions) We have 2 OS storyforms with an overall throughline of Find and safeguard the Ark before the Nazis do. If there are two storyforms then are there 2 OS throughlines? OS Throughline: Situation-Past- Destiny? MC Throughline: Find Ark and recover it for Government (Activity-Obtaining) IC Throughline: ?? Find Ark and recover it for Personal Profit (Belloq’s) (Psychology/Manipulation-Conceiving (of ways to get it back from Indy?) Relationship Throughline:? Fixed attitude-Subconscious-Hope (that it will make him rich?) I’m confused on how to try an analysis with two storyforms. Do you analyze each one separately as if it were the only storyform? Thank-you for thoughts and suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307/20 "2015-03-12T18:10:15Z")
> [@LLou](#): > > I’m confused on how to try an analysis with two storyforms. Do you analyze each one separately as if it were the only storyform? Yes. That’s how it’s done. The above storyform choices seem pretty accurate. I would split them out into separate storyforms and see how they play out. (though I’m guessing both are Stop stories) [Next page](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/analysis-of-raiders-of-lost-ark/307.md?page=2)