Beauty and the Beast

analysis
#26

It’s a problem because she perceives it to be a problem. She feels like a weirdo, but there are plenty of weirdos in the world who just are and don’t worry about fitting in. It’s not like she’s in prison, or is forbidden from reading books.

On the other hand, if she had a different mindset, couldn’t she just marry Gaston and be happy? Of course stubbornly refusing to marry Gaston leads to all kinds of conflict, including, eventually, the almost-commitment of her father and the attack on the Beast.

#27

She perceives her own mindset of not liking the village to be a problem?

#28

First: blah, blah, blah disclaimer I don’t know what I’m talking about. But here goes:

She perceives living in the village to be a problem, but this is more a matter of her own internal state than something objectively external that’s holding her back (i.e. the problem is in her internal perception). Of course we don’t see her actually trying to leave, so we don’t know just how tied down she is externally.

Now if she were a Universe character, we might see her trying to figure out how to get out of the village, but being trapped because she doesn’t have enough money to leave, or being conflicted about leaving her elderly father alone. Maybe she would be putting a lot of effort into changing the village itself – starting book clubs and promoting literacy to make it a more tolerable place to live. Instead we see her going about her day, picking up books and reacting negatively to her life, Gaston’s advances, etc.

#29

The trouble I’m having is that this seems to suggest that Belle just isn’t provincial enough. If only she’d be more provincial, she wouldn’t have a problem. But I don’t feel like that’s what the movie is saying. Instead, the movie seems to say everyone else needs to stop being so provincial…or that if everyone else wasn’t so provincial, Belle wouldn’t have a problem.

#30

Hmmm … I’m not sure that the story is actually saying that, but it’s difficult because we’re talking about the MC throughline rather than the whole story. Maybe I’m encoding it inartfully. So allow me to express it differently and maybe contradict myself :slight_smile:

According to Dramatica, if Belle is a Be-er, she can’t be in Universe. I don’t see anything that suggests she’s a Do-er rather than a Be-er. She complains, but takes no action to change her environment or escape it. She escapes internally into books and imagination.

By contrast, the Beast seems to be entirely focused on his external situation, and controlling the environment (keeping people out, threatening people, imprisoning people, etc.). When she reads to the Beast it’s actually moment of bonding for them – and is a step toward him taking on more of her Be-er approach (looking inward) and changing.

So from a storyform perspective, I think that it’s arguing that as a Be-er, if you hold out against the controlling and/or provincial Do-ers in your world who are trying to change/control you, you’ll have success and maybe even turn your Beast into a prince. Or to put it another way, don’t be swayed from who you are (Fixed Attitude).

#31

What is problematic about her Mindset? If she stopped believing _______, then she would be at peace.

What is problematic about her Universe? If she could escape _________, then she would be at peace.

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A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood (2019)
#32

Live action is pretty close to the cartoon, just with more sociopolitical activism.

Well, not in the first act, anyway.

This seems like an odd takeaway to me. Her personal problems stem from her refusal to marry Gaston?

I could see her personal problems stemming from others provincial mindsets, but I have a hard time getting that to be an internal problem for her.

She sees Phillipe return alone and sets out to find her father. When she finds him, she insists the beast take her instead-changing the environment by putting herself in her fathers place?-when the Beast demands she join him for dinner, she doesn’t change herself internally to fit into the environment, she says no, fitting the environment to her internal state.

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#34

What is problematic about her Mindset? If she stopped believing that the answers to her problems lay in books, then she would be at peace.

What is problematic about her Universe? If she could her little provincial town and the castle of the Beast, then she would be at peace.

Neither of these is really satisfying. I’m also struggling with the fact that I believe she is Steadfast. So doesn’t that mean it’s more about holding out for the environment to change than for her to stop doing something?

#35

She responds internally. Escape through books.

Lol I’m not seriously “team Gaston”. Maybe I’m arguing myself in a circle.

Well, I don’t know how else she would have responded here. The decision-making style is a preference, but when the life of her father is at stake …

So if that’s a Do-er response, you’re saying a Be-er response would be to just adjust and have dinner with the Beast?

I view that scene as an example of stubbornness. Or to put it another way, you can trap me here in this castle (external) but you can’t force me to change how I feel (internal). I may totally misunderstand the Do-er/Be-er thing, but that seems very Be-er to me.

But some of this might also be in the OS…

And I am also seeing how I could argue the opposite and have her in Universe. Nice job @Gregolas now you’ve got me all turned around :upside_down:

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#36

I think I was probably writing about do-er/be-er out of stubbornness more than anything. I really dont know if those were good examples or not.

I almost posted a couple of times that maybe the Gaston stuff was in OS. The opening question of the live action version is ‘who could learn to love a beast?’ And I think Gaston is supposed to be kind of a beast as well, a contrast to The Beast. By the way (I don’t think I’ve already posted this)after the movie is over and the Beast is a prince again, does…does Belle still just call him Beast or what?

#37

I’m skipping around here, forgive me. Thoughts on Rejection (non-acceptance) as OS Problem? The Beast rejects the sorceress and everyone is turned into an animal or inanimate object. Gastons rejection by Belle leads to various conflict (as @Lakis already pointed out). I’m not saying that’s what I think it is just yet. Just pondering.

#38

That could make sense – but it messes up the chosen concerns (so far) so we would have to revisit those.

What do you think about the Story Goal? Is there something besides Becoming that you think fits?

#39

The opening question is ‘who could ever learn to love a beast?’ Maybe ‘who could ever conceive of loving a beast?’ would have been more accurate?
Or maybe, ‘who could ever conceive of the beast as lovable?’ would be more accurate still?

#40

Aha!

I had been putting Conceiving as the Requirements, which I would stand by. “Learning (conceiving of) to love a beast” is a requirement for him to Becoming.

It’s possible to put Becoming as a requirement of Conceiving but I think the other way works better.

#41

I’m not looking at the software right now, so I don’t know if this would work, but I’m thinking Becoming would be more of a benchmark or a forewarning or something. As the servants run out of space, they become more inanimate.

Looking at the opening scene, what caused everyone’s problems? The prince becoming a beast? Or the prince failing to conceive of the beauty within the sorceress or whatever?

#42

I’m in front of the software now, and i’ll say this. Failure to Become would probably mean a failure to Obtain human form again. I’m not sure how a failure to Conceive would lead to a Consequence of Learning.

#43

So if she stopped reading, Gaston would stop harassing her? Are they really trying to get across the point that Belle is harming herself by dreaming about far off places?

Do you see how final that is in comparison to your first example? She leaves, she’s done. All is good. She can read her books wherever she wants.

But if she stops reading, or thinking that she’ll find answers in books, she still has an egomaniac to deal with.

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#44

Hm… yeah, this seems pretty inarguable.

Okay I am ready to entertain the idea that you and @Gregolas are right, (Belle is in Universe). I guess I was really stuck on a) the idea that she’s a Be-er and b) the idea that the Beast is a Universe character because, well he’s stuck in this beast body and trapped in a castle.

@Gregolas what’s the argument for the Beast being in Mind? Is it his belief that “no one could ever love a beast”?

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#45

What affect does this have on others?

#46

Well, his situation (the curse) affects everyone, right? The village forgets about him (though I’m not sure how much that really bothers them), his staff obviously, Belle’s father and then Belle.