No problem, Aidos. I’ll try to explain as we go along and please, feel free to jump in and ask questions at any time.
Now that we have a consensus on the Story Limit, let’s say we move on to the Story Outcome. Did the story end in Success or Failure? And explain why (which would probably involve who the Protagonist is and what the Story Goal may be).
Just to keep track, so far we have…
MC: Riggan
IC: Birdman
MC Resolve: Change
MC Growth: Stop
MC Approach: Do-er.
MC Style: Linear
Story Driver: Action
Story Limit: Optionlock
Look at that, we’re flying!
1st try: For story outcome, I think it’s success. Riggan, as protagonist, wants to put on a successful show and pulls it off. He wants to obtain the approval of the NYC theatre going audience and of the critic Tabitha. So story goal of Obtaining.
2nd try: Doodling a bit in the software and trying different combos, I’ll keep success, but change the story goal to Innermost Desires. All of the characters in the story are looking for love and find it in some way shape or form. Mike finds Sam. Sam finds her father. Sylvia (re)finds Riggan. Lesley & Laura find each other. Jake finds Riggan (in the hospital scene), Riggan finds the adoration of the crowd and the respect of Tabitha, etc.
Either way, success.
I like Success for Outcome. Riggan’s Goal is to put on a play that is lauded by critics and audience alike. It does appear that he achieved that in the end.
Hi @Jerome, don’t worry about recapping. I’ll create a separate post for that (just to keep the repetition down). And hold off on the actual Dramatics Story Goal. I was speaking more in a general sense …
Success. The critic wrote a successful review, the audience liked it, his personal relationships seem OK (daughter, wife, Birdman) He’s not as stressed as he was in the beginning.
That might come a little later … so, onto Story Judgment: Good or Bad? Did Riggan resolve his personal issues and find peace or did he end up still angst-ridden and miserable?
Hmmm… I’m going to say Good, he finds peace.
Good for me too. Which is weird if we conclude that he killed himself. Not quite sure how to marry that. Is it a question of form VS weaving?
Lots of resolved Main Characters end up killing themselves LOL. When it comes to the Dramatica storyform it doesn’t matter whether or not we think of suicide as a “good” or a “bad” thing. The storyform is completely objective - did the Main Character resolve their issues or do they still suffer from them? That’s the question you need to answer.
And it looks like everyone sees it as Good which is Good!
So now onto the Domains. For this one, we need to argue all four at once. We have four throughlines: Main Character, Influence Character, their Relationship and the Overall Story. Taking the four Domains: Activities, Situation, Ways of Thinking, and Fixed Attitude. Where do each of these Throughlines fall?
This part… I believe I understand what you’re talking about. He came to terms with Birdman in his head. But is that the argument the story is trying to make? Come to terms with the voices in your head? That doesn’t feel right. There was nothing about love here. Nothing about art vs commercialism. No commentary about celebrity and consumer culture. Am I missing something?
EDIT:
To me he is still wounded from his failure as a father. He had to give in to Birdman, which was a defeat. He killed himself! I feel like those things matter. They inform the audience what to make of the realizations he’s made in the end. And then you have his daughter smiling at the end. That should mean something In a move that is as engimatic as this there are clues left to decipher the ultimate meaning.
[quote=“Dan310, post149, topic:174”][/quote]
If I remember correctly the “Story Judgment: Good” ending of Stephen King’s Apt Pupil (the novel, not the film) is another example of how the character may end up doing something that can’t be considered “good” (in moral terms) but does end his suffering. In a similar way Riggan finds peace, even if he kills himself. Am I seeing this right?
You are inflating the MC Throughline into the entire story. Good/Bad is not about “the story” but about the Main Character.
“Giving in” sounds like something you are imposing on it. Even if it weren’t, sometimes learning is hard, even painful. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Based on the choices we’ve made above, the OS can either be Situation or Activity. Of those two, I think OS: Activity might work best.
OS: Activity (Putting on a play, running around half naked, getting drunk, playing games, fooling around backstage, doing interviews)
MC: Situation (I’m an aging actor no one takes seriously edit: who is losing his mind)
IC: Fixed Attitude (This place smells like balls. How did we end up in this dump? Let’s get the hell outta here!)
RS: Manipulation (“You don’t exist, you’re just a voice in my head.” VS “No, Riggan, I am you!”)
I was more talking about the Success/Good together.
I’m going off what we see in the film. He’s crying about his failure as a father. Ok, maybe he’s now “ok” with that. Maybe he knows he will never be a good father. That doens’t necessarily means that he feels good about it… He was not suicidal for the entire film. He was however losing his mind. His calmness doens’t seem zen-like. The trajectory of his frame of mind was downwards. He snapped. And is now about to end his life. Why make the decision to end your life just after accepting Birdman?
Yes you are seeing this right. Story Judgment simply asks whether or not the Main Character is resolved by the end of the narrative.
@Dan310 are you arguing for a Story Judgment of Bad then? If so, what indicators do you see that suggest that he is still suffering?
I think I figured it out. I’ll agree it’s Good.
And I 2nd Jerome’s take on Throughline arragenment.
Is it too late to argue for MC Growth: Start?
Yes it is. I’ll leave it open and see where the app puts it, but for now it’s too late. Anyone have a different viewpoint on the throughlines?
I know I usually see things differently but I will argue for
OS in Manner of Thinking (Manipulation)-There is a lot of manipulation causing problems. Broadway Star manipulates the Movie Actor. Girlfriend manipulates the boyfriend with pregnancy possibilities. Daughter manipulates father with guilt. Director manipulates actors and producer. Stars manipulate public and critics if not also visa-versa.
MC throughline in Situation- Riggan is stuck in his role as movie actor. More specifically as Birdman. He is stuck with this person.
IC throughline if Fixed Attitude- Birdman is not budging. Riggan should never try to walk away from his role as Birdman. He is unshaken in his attitude that Riggan accept that he is Birdman and life was so good when he was Birdman. Riggan needs to stop resisting his celebrity.
RS is Activity-Together they are very active. Even in their meditation they make Riggan float. They manipulate objects. This struggle and fight each other over Riggan