Black Panther Analysis

Nah, I worded it kind of awkwardly there. I meant that T’Challa wants to live up to his father’s reputation in being a good king, which means he’s not really doing anything new. He’s just trying to maintain the status quo. So M’Baku’s perspective on the whole ‘tradition’ thing is closer (but not identical) with what T’Challa is thinking than Killmonger.

Ah, okay. This is interesting. M’Baku definitely changes his mind on the throne thing, but it’s in the first act and he basically just yields the fight. He doesn’t really ‘change’ his perspective so much as give up on one fight. With Killmonger, I think you have to look at him side-by-side with T’Challa.

T’Challa at the beginning of the story is busy focusing on his father’s legacy, and basically resisting doing anything different. He wants to maintain Wakanda’s secrecy, not act unless absolutely necessary, etc. By the end of the story, he’s at the UN announcing Wakanda’s intentions to open outreach centers and help the world.

Killmonger at the beginning of the story (or as close to it as he can be) voices his intentions to liberate those around the world, arming them and essentially burning down Wakanda’s heritage. By the end of the story, he’s still fighting for it. He only gives up when he’s stabbed, and even then, he dies on his own terms.

Of those two, T’Challa is the one that has a complete 180 shift on his perspective as a result of knowing Killmonger. Killmonger was extremely radical, but T’Challa saw some benefit in overhauling the system. T’Challa changed his perspective to a more moderate version of Killmonger’s intent, but Killmonger died maintaining his initial perspective.

I’m going to answer both of these points in one (or try). The hardest thing you’ll have to learn with Dramatica, in my opinion, is to view it as a distinctly unsubjective thing. The storyform itself just presents WHAT the conflict is. You, as the author, have to add the ‘flavour’ and storytelling to it – the HOW, WHY, WHERE and WHEN.

So M’Baku making the challenge for the throne can be seen in the first four levels of the storyform we agreed upon:

Domain of Physics – A ritual fight for the throne.
Concern of Obtaining – Attempting to gain or prevent the other from gaining the throne.
Issue of Attitude – The competing attitudes for how Wakanda should be run that precede the battle.
Problem of Oppose – A rival tribesman openly opposing the rightful heir to the throne.

You can see all four sources of conflict throughout the scene, but the characters’ motivation lies in the storytelling. It’s how you, the author, present that conflict to an audience. Here, M’Baku’s motivation is mostly seen in the Issue and Problem areas, with him voicing his opposition to T’Challa’s rule, mocking Shuri and the other Wakandans. The Domain and Concern just provides the backdrop for the scene.

I completely empathise with your point about going around in circles. It can be unbearably frustrating sometimes. I posted a few weeks back for help with a story I couldn’t work out for four years. And it turned out I had every single throughline in the wrong domain! I’m now steadily going through all of the Dramatica podcasts and watching the movies, taking notes, trying to ‘get’ the difference between a Physics story and a Situation story. We’re all in the same boat. Just keep going, keep asking questions, keep writing and you’ll get it.

The PSR is a subjective look at the storyform, and the PSR for this storyform says that the Activity signposts are explored in terms of the Psychology/Manipulation types, so you might be onto something there!

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Ok. :slight_smile: Let’s break this down. With regards to the theory, the WHY you seek for his actions is Motivation. This is an OS function for the character(s). The PSR is a subjective view of the entire Storyform. It’s an exploration of Variations present in that narrative.

True about the theory feeling like it could go anyway. But there is usually ONE source of conflict the feels the strongest. And if done right, the other throughlines will naturally fit in. No hassle, or shoehorning anything. That’s the beauty of Dramatica.

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M’Baku changes in the end when he joins the final fight. He went from wanting nothing to do with T’Challa and wanting to see someone else take the throne to helping T’Challa get the throne back.

I can see your point there.

Ah! Lightbulb moment. Seeing the breakdown, that makes a lot more sense. And with the PSR connecting Activity to Psychology, that kind of clears things up for me in terms of the motivation thing. Sweet!

Thank you, @jhay!

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BTW this has been one of the most confusing parts of the model for me. It’s too easy to think of the MC and IC as having an “argument” – like you and me, having a debate, and one of us changes our minds. This can happen in a grand argument story, but just as often (more often?) it’s easier to think of the IC/MC as using two different approaches to solve problems. In an MC change story, the IC’s way of doing things (approach to solving problems) triggers or forces a change in the MC – whether or not they actually “agree” on the subject matter. (At least, I think this this is right – the DSEs can correct me if I’m wrong).

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Anything Can Be Anything and Dramatica

The Honest Trailer for Black Panther says “the co-IC’s cause the MC to change to their perspective” in as many words at 2:43-3:30 of the video:

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I finally got to see this film!

I can tell why everyone liked it so much :wink:

I’ve read all 133 posts and can definitely agree on one thing: T’Challa is the Main Character. :grinning:

I’ve read some pretty well-reasoned arguments on both sides of the Do-er/Be-er question, and the relation between the Main Character and Overall Story Throughlines and had an idea about something that might help.

Both Killmonger and T’Challa present opposing views of the sins of the father visited upon the son. One external. One internal. One suffers guilt for the decisions his father made in the Past. The other offers painful Memories of the very same moment in time.

The imbalance from T’Challa’s point-of-view is that he is the son of a king who chose country over people. That is a guilt T’Challa cannot escape from. His Throughline is found in Universe—he is the son of a bad king.

Killmonger, on the other hand, remembers what it was like to run upstairs and find your father murdered. These memories are so painful that they create a drive for revenge in him so great that he thinks of nothing else his entire life. This point-of-view visits imbalance upon others because of his fixation on avenging his father. His Throughline, as Influence Character, is Mind.

Killmonger’s “situation” as cousin to T’Challa offers him a chance at the throne, nothing more. T’Challa’s “fixed attitude” of freezing doesn’t change the fact that his family did awful things to fellow Wakandians in the past.

T’Challa’s personal issue isn’t that he doesn’t step up to the plate and take action-he’s always willibgvto do whatever is asked of him. What does hold him back is his reliance on other people to make decisions for him. He’s king—and yet, he kneels before his father’s image and asks him for guidance—something a king shouldn’t do—at least, that’s the point made in this film.

To me, the clearest dynamic shift between these perspectives is the difference between Memory and the Past. One feels for what happened. The other can’t escape his father’s shame.

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This tracks with my (much less well articulated) initial take.

We even see Killmonger in a flashback where he’s inhabiting the memory of what happened in his childhood. I don’t think this is just storytelling – it seems pretty central to driving his motivations.

The thing I wasn’t immediately able to argue for/illustrate was Understanding as the overall concern (though it feels right to me).

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Well, here’s the easiest way to figure out the Concerns.

  • What is T’Challa’s personal problem?
  • What is everyone’s issue with T’Challa?

The first is the Main Character perspective. The second is the Overall Story perspective.

And actually, because we’re trying to get an Overall Story or objective perspective, let’s replace T’Challa with his objective role…

  • What is T’Challa’s personal problem?
  • What is everyone’s issue with Wakanda?

Since he–as King, and the son of the King that led them to where they are now–stands for Wakanda.

The Authors of the film did a great job of making sure the answer to both questions was the same thing–as it should be in a Changed Resolve Main Character story.

Answering those will help you skip right past Domain and Concern and land you on the actual Problem and Solution–since both will be the same from either perspective.

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I thought that the Problem was Self-Aware – everyone’s problem with Wakanda is that it that it is focused inwardly, on itself, and the Solution is that it must focus on the rest of the world (Aware). I guess I have a hard time separating the MC throughline from that (maybe because he as kine he also represents Wakanda) but it seemed like “going outward” was his personal Solution too, especially insofar is it means rejecting the inward-looking traditions of the Past.

Self-Aware and Aware might work for Focus and Direction, but remember that the Problem is something running along underneath it all - the unspoken “subtext” of the narrative.

Is it really greater Awareness that solves the issue with Wakanda?

What is the very first thing we learn about T’Challa in the beginning? How does this match up with Wakanda as a character on the world stage?

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Could the problem for both T’Challa and Wakanda be Inertia? The whole “I never freeze” line, and T’Challa trying to carry on in the same way has his father, while Wakanda is fighting to keep things the same, which could lead to Self-Aware as a Symptom. The challenge from M’Baku that came out of nowhere and upset what should have been a short ceremony. The fact that the Dore Milaje stayed with Killmonger even though they know that he’s a bad dude.

Everyone wants to keep to tradition, and T’Challa is trying to carry on the legacy of his father. And it’s in Change that both T’Challa resolves his angst, and Wakanda survives Killmonger - when T’Challa tells Shuri to turn on the things on the train so that the vibranium would be rendered inert, which technically alters the process of the panther suits and allows T’Challa to beat Killmonger.

Killmonger is, as you say, driven by Desire – both for revenge, and for Black people around the world to rise up with the help of Wakanda’s technology. Giving them the Ability to do that would have satisfied that drive.

I can’t remember how the Relationship Story P/S and F/D are selected, but Conceptualizing makes sense for the Relationship Story as both T’Challa and Killmonger have a different concept of what Wakanda and helping the world would look like, and that is the focal point of the relationship between them.

When it comes to the difference between Inertia and Change - Inertia is flow and keeping things going. Change, as an element, is actually about adapting or shifting oneself, a remolding into all different things.

The only reason I bring it up is because the Change you suggest sounds more like an instance of Story Outcome or Main Character Resolve. It’s like the difference between obtaining a Goal (small o goal) and Obtaining as a Goal (big o goal).

A change isn’t Change - changing is Change. Remember that these Elements are processes - little engines of conflict, so it’s the act of changing that would describe a Change element.

So are those not the right elements, or is it just that I wasn’t specific enough in pointing out the exact moment when T’Challa applied Change as an element?

It’s more that you weren’t using the Dramatica element of Change correctly. T’Challa is not changing or adapting as a method for solving problems at the end. Yes, he Changed, which means he is changing or adapting his approach BUT he is not doing that by Changing or Adapting as a means for a Solution.

So Inertia and Change aren’t the Problem and Solution here.

Otherwise, he would have had to literally change or adapt something in order to solve his personal problem of being the son of a bad king. For instance, announcing to the world that Wakanda would be joining the global community because they’ve been in the shadows too long. Or adapting to what was happening in the fight with Killmonger by stopping the train so that he could kill Killmonger.

Neither of those things would count as applying Change the element as a means for a solution?

No - because it’s simply changing an approach not engaging in Change-ing.

For instance, a Problem of Inertia in the film would be something like the 5 tribes coming into conflict over following the traditions of the challenge fight, or any number of traditions that they have to do over and over again, particularly if continuing along that path threatens the lives of the individual tribe members. Maybe one tribe is in charge of supplying fish and the rivers are running shallow but hey–it’s tradition that you guys bring fish…otherwise, you don’t get our protection or our resources.

The Solution then would be to constantly Change or Adapt Tradition to roll with the tide and various wants and desires of individual tribes, or with the changing weather conditions, or to be completely malleable.

T’Challa isn’t malleable by the end. But his Approach is Changed.

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T’Challa claims, “I never freeze,” while a few minutes later he does. Perception? Ditto for the outside world’s perception of Wakanda, and vice versa?

A Perception Problem is where imbalance occurs because of Perception-ing, not a single instance of perception. It would also imply that Reality-or Actuality—somehow resolves these issues of Perception-ing.

But I would agree that T’Challa’s personal issue has to do with freezing. They’re very explicit about that, right from the start.

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