# Difference between Linear and Holistic problem solving **URL:** \ **Category:** Dramatica Theory\ **Created:** [August 25, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020 "2018-08-25T21:28:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/1 "2018-08-25T21:28:16Z")
> [@Sherlock, S1 Ep1, A Study in Pink](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/sherlock-s1-ep1-a-study-in-pink/2017/12): > > What’s weird is that this seems backwards in some ways. Linear thinkers like cause and effect, an inherently temporal concept–the cause must happen before the effect. Meanwhile on the Holistic side, relationships exist in the space between things. > > It’s almost like spatial and temporal are referring to what their practitioners take for granted, or perhaps what they assume. The LPS expends his mental energy in the spatial realm because he’s assumed that time is fixed, and the causal chains are set in stone. But the HPS sees time as stretchy and fluid and where the problem can be solved, while spaces are fixed. > > I think that helps explain why Holistic/ temporal thinkers don’t engage well with Timelocks, even though semantically they seem well paired. It’s not that the HPS doesn’t understand time; they don’t understand how it could be locked. > > Pairing Holistic and Timelock in the storyform seems to create a sort of vicious circle between the audience and the story. The Linear thinkers in the audience can’t empathize with the Holistic MC, the Holistic thinkers in the audience can’t buy in to the Timelock, and since the HPS Main Character doesn’t feel properly pressured by the Limit–being unable to really understand it–there’s a dissonance at the heart of the story that further alienates the audience. > > Sorry, I guess that’s a bit off-topic. @Etherbeard, starting a new thread for this one. [This page](http://storymind.com/mental_relativity/) has a lot of good articles that discuss the difference between Holistic and Linear problem solving. ---
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/2 "2018-08-25T21:49:52Z")
When you say: > [@Sherlock, S1 Ep1, A Study in Pink](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/sherlock-s1-ep1-a-study-in-pink/2017/12): > > The LPS expends his mental energy in the spatial realm because he’s assumed that time is fixed Those articles explain that, in the MEST quad, the LPS sits on Space meaning he sees space as fixed and measures the rest of the quad in relation to that and then has to make a second measurement in order to get time. HPS sit on time and measure that first before measuring space. So each problem solving style looks at both Space and Time, but the way they see things is affected by how they measure them, or in what order they measure them. This difference causes LPS to see states of things, structures, paths, etc and HPS see processes, relationships, and balance. ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/3 "2018-08-26T00:33:04Z")
Sherlock rattles off how he arrived at a deduction, and we see all the pieces come together in his mind as he goes through them. IMHO, a holistic problem solver would rattle off how everything is related now, projecting how it will work together coming up. The before is only a mass, an embroidery piece seen as a whole. Right or wrong, I don’t know for sure. After reading the posts, this popped up in my brain. Food for thought, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/4 "2018-08-26T01:32:29Z")
> [@Gregolas](#): > > why Holistic/ temporal thinkers don’t engage well with Timelocks I don’t know the theory behind this other than having come across the statement that Timelocks are Goal-oriented. LPS are also goal oriented where HPS are more direction or current oriented. The way I try to make sense of it is if you are looking at a problem through the lens of Space, it makes sense to explore all available space (Spacelock) or to explore as much as you can while that space is available (Timelock). But if you look at things from the lens of Time and you look primarily at processes, it makes sense to let that process play out. To cut the process short just because a certain amount of time has passed doesn’t let you see if that process would have solved the problem if the process needs more time. I don’t know if that checks out with the theory, though. ---
**Author:** ![whitepaws](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/whitepaws/32/1038_2.png) [@whitepaws](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/whitepaws)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:50am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/5 "2018-08-26T06:50:44Z")
Holistic characters focus on what an event/act means rather than what the event/act actually is at face value. So, it isn’t circular thinking, but more like…association driven. It looks like ‘bigger picture’ thinking but it isn’t bigger picture thinking. It’s more like associations that are being triggered to think of related events/actions. To put it another way: it’s like having mini-brainstorm sessions on a daily basis. I speak from experience 😉 ---
**Author:** ![whitepaws](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/whitepaws/32/1038_2.png) [@whitepaws](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/whitepaws)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/6 "2018-08-26T06:54:49Z")
I’d also say that timelock works well with holistic characters…it isn’t incongruent. Indeed, it creates more tension for a holistic character because they can’t control or direct their mini-brainstorms so if you put them under pressure of a timelock plot, they are gonna be sweating bullets and praying for answers. ---
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/7 "2018-08-26T14:31:58Z")
> [@whitepaws](#): > > association driven. It looks like ‘bigger picture’ thinking but it isn’t bigger picture thinking. It’s more like associations that are being triggered to think of related events/actions. Sounds like balance and relationships. Thanks for the insights! > [@whitepaws](#): > > I’d also say that timelock works well with holistic characters…it isn’t incongruent. Indeed, it creates more tension for a holistic character because they can’t control or direct their mini-brainstorms so if you put them under pressure of a timelock plot, they are gonna be sweating bullets and praying for answers Maybe so. I’m much more linear so can’t speak to that, but above I was speaking more to the idea that HPS don’t empathize well with a character in a timelock and why that might be. ---
**Author:** ![whitepaws](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/whitepaws/32/1038_2.png) [@whitepaws](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/whitepaws)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/8 "2018-08-26T16:26:46Z")
Ok, let’s see… why would an HPS character not empathise well with a character in a timelock crunch? Let’s break it down. Those who can but don’t: Immaturity. Age. Lack of experience. Lack of effort. Laziness. Too self-absorbed. Too arrogant. Controlling. Hypocrit. Nag. Attention-seeker. Take your pick. Great versatile bunch for comedy, drama, thriller, action. Then you get the ones who can’t empathise: the narcissitic psycho. Great for horror genre. The ones who pretend to empathise: Manipulative purposes which is great for a psycho-thriller. ooh, then you get the ones who refuse and just won’t: usually motivated by revenge, bitterness or resentment. Long suffering partner. Great drama. Then you have the bunch who don’t have the capacity because they’re plate is all filled-up…illness, mental or physical conditions, over-burdened. Family drama is good here. The list can go on…but I’ll stop there. I don’t know if I am answering anything for you, but I hope so 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/9 "2018-08-26T23:39:54Z")
> [@whitepaws](#): > > The list can go on…but I’ll stop there I appreciate your list and wish you WOULD go on. I think it is fantastic how you note the genre plot patterns. It is a help to me. I wish we could come up with which gists go with them, too. ---
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/10 "2018-08-27T15:13:40Z")
> [@Gregolas](#): > > But if you look at things from the lens of Time and you look primarily at processes, it makes sense to let that process play out. To cut the process short just because a certain amount of time has passed doesn’t let you see if that process would have solved the problem if the process needs more time. I don’t know if that checks out with the theory, though. Reading through more of those articles, I’m reminded that HPS look at dynamics and thus the ruler they use can be flexible (or dynamic), which surely must apply to why an HPS with a Timelock doesn’t seem to reach an HPS audience and why HPS are said to see time as flexible. A set amount of time doesn’t allow for a flexible time ruler. It’s a better description than what I had, but still a fairly theoretical view. ---
**Author:** ![LunarDynasty](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/lunardynasty/32/2515_2.png) [@LunarDynasty](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/LunarDynasty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/11 "2018-08-27T23:47:33Z")
> [@whitepaws](#): > > Then you get the ones who can’t empathise: the narcissitic psycho. [Interesting article](https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/psychopathy_antisocial_persona.html) on how narcissism and pyschopathy do and do not overlap. ---
**Author:** ![RailwayAdventurer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@RailwayAdventurer](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/RailwayAdventurer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/12 "2018-08-28T02:52:47Z")
> [@Gregolas](#): > > above I was speaking more to the idea that HPS don’t empathize well with a character in a timelock and why that might be. > [@whitepaws](#): > > why would an HPS character not empathise well with a character in a timelock crunch? I think what @Gregolas was referring to was that Holistic Problem-solving _audience members_ don’t generally empathize well with a character in a Timelock, just like Linear Problem-solving audience members don’t generally empathize with a Holistic Main Character, based on the idea of Audience Reach. ---
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/13 "2018-08-28T03:28:29Z")
Thanks @RailwayAdventurer, that is a correct assessment of my meaning. I probably should have been more clear. That also clears up what Anne was getting at in reply to me as well. Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![whitepaws](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/whitepaws/32/1038_2.png) [@whitepaws](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/whitepaws)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 7:57am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/14 "2018-08-28T07:57:32Z")
> [@RailwayAdventurer](#): > > Holistic Problem-solving audience members don’t generally empathize well with a character in a Timelock That was not clear but hey, at least sticking to characters, it benefitted someone. Plus, I had fun considering the character options 🙂 And, you know, if it’s humans @Gregolas is actually referring to, I disagree that women don’t enjoy action/thrillers (usually timelock plots) but yeah, there will be more men in the audience. Rambo type plots defo aren’t hugely appealing. ---
**Author:** ![whitepaws](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/whitepaws/32/1038_2.png) [@whitepaws](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/whitepaws)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/15 "2018-08-28T08:24:53Z")
Actually, is Rambo timelock? It’s been a while but I think it’s optionlock. ---
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/16 "2018-08-28T12:56:28Z")
> [@whitepaws](#): > > I disagree that women don’t enjoy action/thrillers (usually timelock plots) I don’t know that action/thrillers are usually timelocks. When referring to women/HPS audience members not being able to empathize with an MC in a Timelock, I’m speaking directly to what’s in the theory (audience reach specifically-if you have an HPS MC in a Timelock story, the Audience Reach is no one). But to be clear, that doesn’t mean that a predominantly Holistic minded person can’t enjoy a movie with a Timelock, but that it’s harder to put themselves in the MC’s shoes. As a person with a predominantly Linear PSS, theory says I shouldn’t be able to empathize with Holisitc MCs (just like HPS aren’t supposed to be able to empathize with an MC in a Timelock). But there are movies and shows with Holistic MCs that I really enjoy. For instance, I enjoy watching the Handmaids Tale with my wife (even if I feel a bit dirty after seeing it and can only take one episode at a time—and it’s not a great example because I don’t know that it’s a GAS) and I suspect the MC is Holisitc, but I cannot put myself in June’s shoes as a character the way I would a more linear MC. Same with Sixth Sense. One of my favorite movies, but the MC is holistic and I empathize more with Cole than I do Malcolm Crowe. ---
**Author:** ![Etherbeard](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/etherbeard/32/817_2.png) [@Etherbeard](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Etherbeard)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/17 "2018-08-28T15:45:20Z")
We really can’t make any generalizations about the genres of timelocks. There are only 15 in Dramatica’s database, and they appear to cover a wide variety vof genre’s. Looking at the list, it’s hard to even imagine most of them as “guy flicks.” ---
**Author:** ![actingpower](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/actingpower/32/2201_2.png) [@actingpower](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/actingpower)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/18 "2018-08-28T20:32:34Z")
This may be a bit of a sidetrack, but I’m curious about whether, in stories where the Main Character has the opposite Problem-Solving Style to the viewer, that viewer then tends to empathize with the Influence Character or even see the Influence Character as the “real main character.” ---
**Author:** ![Greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Greg](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Greg)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/19 "2018-08-28T20:44:37Z")
Great question. I’ve pondered the same thing. After a quick glance at the Dramatica Analysis page, I’d say it probably plays out that way a good percentage of the time, but is definitely not a hard and fast rule. ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020/20 "2019-01-22T02:52:26Z")
When I saw this comic, I thought of this discussion. Holistic problem solvers have traditionally enjoyed working with linear problem solvers… haha. [https://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/familycircus/s-2166061](https://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/familycircus/s-2166061) [Next page](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/difference-between-linear-and-holistic-problem-solving/2020.md?page=2)