# Eating Worms for Inspiration. Good or Bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Support\ **Created:** [January 5, 2015, 6:52am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230 "2015-01-05T06:52:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jerome](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jerome/32/202_2.png) [@Jerome](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Jerome)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:52am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/1 "2015-01-05T06:52:02Z")
I promise, I swear, there’s a reason behind all this. Please forgive the poor taste, but I’ve never been particularly good with the subtle stuff. * * * **THE STORY:** _So here I am, banging my head on my desk, trying to write a great screenplay, but it’s going nowhere._ _Then you show up, beautiful glorious muse and tell me, “Here, inspiration to help you along.”_ _I start typing, everything’s brilliant, “Wow! I’m a writer!” But then I get to the fourth act and everything stops. I can’t write anymore._ _Again, you show up, only this time you say, “If you want to finish your screenplay, you’ll have to eat a bowl of live worms.” And I say, “Fine. Okay. I’ll do it. Anything to be a writer.”_ _So the next thing I know, I’m sitting in front of a bowl filled with slimy, wriggling worms, but I can’t bring myself to do it. It’s just too revolting._ _So I decide to trick you and buy some red liquorish, put it in the bowl and start eating. “Mm,” I say, “yummy worms!”_ _But you, being an all knowing muse, catch me trying to trick you and state, “Either you eat the worms, or you’ll never write another word again.”_ _Faced with my dilemma, I ask, “Can I at least get a glimpse at the fourth act BEFORE I eat the worms?”_ _You grant me my wish, I see the fourth act and it’s… well, not all that great. So I think it over, asking myself, “Is this really worth all this trouble?”_ _So again, I ask another question, “Will eating these worms help me write more than just this one story?” With a smile, you answer, “Eat the worms and find out.”_ _Again I hesitate, but finally turn to the bowl filled with disgusting worms, grab a fist full and stuff them in my mouth. As I chew, I say to myself, “I might not be writing a great screenplay, and I might never write anything worth a damn, but at least I’m trying.”_ * * * **THE QUESTION:** What kind of ending is this? Is it a success / good, or a success / bad ending? Logistically, I get to write my screenplay, so the **outcome is success** , tempered by the fact that it isn’t all that great. But on an emotional level, is it good or bad? Yes, I get to be a writer and that makes me happy, though I don’t know if I’ll ever be successful, so I guess this is **good.** But, at the same time, I have to eat all these disgusting worms and I’m still faced with an uncertain future, which kind of feels **bad.** ---
**Author:** ![Alejandro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Alejandro](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Alejandro)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/2 "2015-01-05T14:52:21Z")
I agree, given the story goal is writing a screenplay I agree that the outcome is success. To answer the second question: I think you should develop your story a little further. I think the outcome could be good or bad depending on what consequences you show in the final scene (Did you sacrificed something? For example, a relationship, so you could write the screenplay? Did you showed the screenplay to another fellow writer and he thought it was good or bad?). OR if your current ending “at least I’m trying” is tied to a scene in the beginning where you or someone else doubts you’ll be able to finish the screenplay - it would be good just to finish the screenplay. ---
**Author:** ![keypayton](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/keypayton/32/18_2.png) [@keypayton](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/keypayton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/3 "2015-01-05T15:06:45Z")
@Jerome, nothing truly worth doing is learned quickly or easily. Ten-thousand hours of practice is what it takes, on average, for _anyone_ to be considered a true “master” at something. But (most of) those who’ve attained that status will assure you it was well worth it. (Attitude is a choice.) Plus, those “masters” did a lot of _GREAT_ work even while en route to their 10,000-hour mark, and continued to do even-_GREATER_ work thereafter. So maybe it’s not _worms_ you are eating; maybe your taste buds are just adjusting to _a higher level of spaghetti…_ ---
**Author:** ![Jerome](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jerome/32/202_2.png) [@Jerome](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Jerome)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/4 "2015-01-05T15:41:35Z")
Ah, I think I get it. So if the opening scene, I’m about to throw in the towel out of despair, but in the final scene I’m still trying, then the judgement is good. But if in the opening scene, a fellow writer is giving me advice on the importance of practice which at the end of the story I fail to take into consideration, then the judgement is bad because my current success is acquired not through personal effort and sacrifice, but through outside influence or cheap tricks (Save the Cat, anyone?). So in this example, can one evaluate judgement based on the alternatives presented during the course of the story? If I choose the best alternative based on the options presented, the judgement is good, but if I fail to do so, then it’s bad. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Jerome](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jerome/32/202_2.png) [@Jerome](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Jerome)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/5 "2015-01-05T15:43:03Z")
Yes, Dramatica is definitely a higher level of spaghetti. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/6 "2015-01-05T16:51:56Z")
You don’t have a personal story line in here, so you cannot determine if it’s a **good** or **bad** ending. What you have is a protagonist who reaches their goal but pays a disgusting **cost**. ---
**Author:** ![Jerome](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jerome/32/202_2.png) [@Jerome](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Jerome)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/7 "2015-01-05T17:45:21Z")
@MWollaeger Ah! The cost. Yes, the static story points I need to better appreciate. So, just for the sake of clarity, if the personal story line is with a writer friend who gives me sound advice at the beginning of the story, but I consistently ignore it and end up losing the friendship, then the judgement is bad. If, on the other hand, my writer friend sees me eating the worms and realizes I’m onto something great and grabs his own bowl, then the judgement is good. Would that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/8 "2015-01-05T21:14:19Z")
Not necessarily, plus you’re linking two things that aren’t necessarily linked. First, in _My Cousin Vinny_ you have a similar set-up. Vinny is working to solve his first case, and he is getting good advice and he takes the advice and he solves the case – Success! And, clearly good, because he wanted to win and he won. Right? **Wrong.** He wanted to win the case without assistance – so he’s unhappy that he had to take the advice. After he’s won, he _grumbles!_ So: achieving the goal doesn’t mean it’s a good ending. Second, having the _other_ character change means that the other character changes. That’s it. It doesn’t mean that he’s moving towards a _good_ choice. ---
**Author:** ![Jerome](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jerome/32/202_2.png) [@Jerome](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Jerome)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/9 "2015-01-05T22:12:38Z")
> [@MWollaeger](#): > > Second, having the other character change means that the other character changes. That’s it. It doesn’t mean that he’s moving towards a good choice. So what if the MC THINKS he’s made the right choice even though we KNOW he’s hasn’t. Would that be good, or bad? As the manual states, “Judgment determines whether the Main Character resolves his personal angst.” But in my admittedly crude example, the MC believes he’s heading in the right direction (perhaps he’s self-delusional) while we all know he’s not resolving his issues at all. Sorry if I’m splitting hairs with this, but I’m working on something that appears to be a success / good story, but can’t help but feel that I’ve got it wrong because the ending is, without mistake, dark as hell. In other words, is it possible to have a success / good that doesn’t feel like a happy ending? ---
**Author:** ![keypayton](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/keypayton/32/18_2.png) [@keypayton](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/keypayton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/10 "2015-01-05T22:23:22Z")
> [@Jerome](#): > > is it possible to have a success / good that doesn’t feel like a happy ending? Ah, now you’re truly getting down to your core question, in words that Dramaticagicians can clearly understand. And I think the answer is “no.” To my understanding, the “Good” means _both_ 1) that at the end the main character is _feeling_ good; _and_ 2) that we (the audience) are also feeling good _for_ him/her. ---
**Author:** ![Jerome](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jerome/32/202_2.png) [@Jerome](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Jerome)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/11 "2015-01-05T23:14:54Z")
> [@keypayton](#): > > Ah, now you’re truly getting down to your core question, in words that Dramaticagicians can clearly understand. Yeah, I need to learn how to break down the general ideas better, sorry for making everyone watch while I peel my onions. > [@keypayton](#): > > And I think the answer is “no.” To my understanding, the “Good” means both 1) that at the end the main character is feeling good; and 2) that we (the audience) are also feeling good for him/her. **WARNING: SPOILER ALERT! Ida is the March movie – it’s going to be analyzed. Don’t read unless you’ve already seen it!** _Would be interesting to do an analysis of Ida if that’s the case. In the story, a young woman living in a convent and about to take her vows, goes out in the “real world” to see if she should become a nun or not. After going on an adventure, she decides the outside world isn’t for her and goes back to the convent to live out the rest of her life as a nun. It’s a downer that she didn’t find something worth living for outside of the convent, but she doesn’t seem too miserable about it. It is, nevertheless, a downer…_ ---
**Author:** ![keypayton](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/keypayton/32/18_2.png) [@keypayton](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/keypayton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/12 "2015-01-05T23:48:20Z")
@Jerome, I haven’t seen _Ida_ yet (I want to, soon). But based on the responses posted at [RottenTomatoes.com](http://RottenTomatoes.com) and [MetaCritic.com](http://MetaCritic.com), most of the best-known critics do _not_ see it as a “downer.” “Difficult,” yes, and “heart-wrenching” too. But also “laced with beauty and hope,” and “wondrous with life and drama.” And several specifically commend the lead actress for her “quiet grace and strength,” as her character struggles with “religious faith and the working out of personal guilt.” Sounds to me like the filmmakers _wanted us_ (the audience) to feel some understanding of and relief toward Ida’s final choice. Maybe they wanted us to feel that the “working out” of her “personal guilt” logically led her back to the convent. (I’m just guessing, based on the reviews I read). Amid chaotic times, I can _certainly_ understand someone desiring a quieter, calmer, more-predictable-and-less-“stimulated” daily life. But that’s true of a lot of folks of my age. So maybe you’re just not at that place, and can’t currently stand the thought of living a monastic life. Perhaps _Ida_’s ending sounds like a downer to you _personally_, even if many older movie critics don’t see it that way? Which all has to do with the fact that NO story can please _everyone_. But the most-successful-and-enduring stories seem to please a larger majority of the potential audience than those stories that are only here today and gone tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![actingpower](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/actingpower/32/2201_2.png) [@actingpower](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/actingpower)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/13 "2015-01-05T23:51:54Z")
This talk reminds of a question I’ve had recently about deciding whether an ending is Good or Bad. [Spoilers] What about Winston at the end of _1984_? By the end of the story, he professes that he “loved Big Brother.” He seems happy, but that’s only because he’s been tortured and brainwashed into addled mindlessness. This isn’t a Good ending, not by any stretch of the imagination. This isn’t how we the readers wanted Winston to turn out. But if you were to ask Winston if he was happy, he’d say, “Of course I am! I’m no longer occupied by silly ideas of revolution and destroying Big Brother. Why wouldn’t I be happy?” [/Spoilers] Or, to put it in non-spoiler terms, where do brainwashing, mind control, and lost emotions play into a “happy ending?” How does unreliability play into the determination of Good versus Bad? If a character changes their moral compass, do we judge their actions based on their new code of goodness or their old? (Or alternatively, what if we want a character to change their moral compass, but they never do?) [Spoilers] What would start-of-the-story Winston think of end-of-the-story Winston? Does that matter towards the overall Judgment of the story? [/Spoilers] ---
**Author:** ![keypayton](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/keypayton/32/18_2.png) [@keypayton](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/keypayton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/14 "2015-01-06T00:00:55Z")
@actingpower, your example does serve to emphasize that of my two things that “Good” means – “1) that at the end the main character is feeling good; and 2) that we (the audience) are also feeling good for him/her” – the more important of the two is 2): “that we (the audience) are… feeling good for him/her.” So to me, _1984_ definitely has an MC Judgment of “Bad,” regardless of what Winston and Big Brother are saying at the end. Of course the other question in this equation – “Does _1984_ have an OS Outcome of Failure or Success?” – would require a whole 'nother analytical dialogue. And the answer to that question greatly depends on the analyst’s definition of the Overall Story Goal. ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/15 "2015-01-06T01:00:20Z")
> [@Jerome](#): > > But in my admittedly crude example, the MC believes he’s heading in the right direction (perhaps he’s self-delusional) while we all know he’s not resolving his issues at all. The storyform is the author’s intent, so if your intent is that he hasn’t resolved his issues, then go with that. In addition, if he is lying to himself or delusional, then _what is really going on_ is that he hasn’t resolved his angst – I think that qualifies as “not resolving his angst” and would be a _bad_ ending. I’m not sure, though, and I’ll default to anyone with a better argument. > [@Jerome](#): > > In other words, is it possible to have a success / good that doesn’t feel like a happy ending? There are several ways to do this. If I want to win a war (OS story) and overcome my fear of water (MC Story) and I have a victory at sea, then I have all the makings of a Success/Good ending. But if my family is lost in the war, this won’t feel like a happy ending so much. This could be a cost or a requirement or a prerequisite or a precondition. It could probably be other things, too. But they can temper your ending pretty well. > [@keypayton](#): > > And I think the answer is “no.” To my understanding, the “Good” means both 1) that at the end the main character is feeling good; and 2) that we (the audience) are also feeling good for him/her. To add to this: I don’t think you can make a happy ending feel bad bad, I think the best you can do is make it feel like it’s got good and bad parts. ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/16 "2015-01-06T01:02:54Z")
_Ida_ is the March movie – it’s going to be analyzed. You might want to strengthen your **spoiler alert** by pointing this out so that people skip your spoiler with more intention. Look here: [http://dramatica.com/community/users-group](http://dramatica.com/community/users-group) for all upcoming movies. ---
**Author:** ![Jerome](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jerome/32/202_2.png) [@Jerome](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Jerome)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/17 "2015-01-06T03:53:22Z")
> [@MWollaeger](#): > > You might want to strengthen your spoiler alert by pointing this out so that people skip your spoiler with more intention. Like so? > [@MWollaeger](#): > > But if my family is lost in the war, this won’t feel like a happy ending so much. This could be a cost or a requirement or a prerequisite or a precondition. It could probably be other things, too. But they can temper your ending pretty well. @MWollaeger THANK YOU! That clarifies A LOT. Now I have a better notion how to plot the emotional landscape of the story I’m working on. ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/18 "2015-01-06T03:58:32Z")
Thanks! Now hopefully people will watch and join in the conversation too! ---
**Author:** ![Alejandro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Alejandro](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Alejandro)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/19 "2015-01-06T14:54:24Z")
I forgot to ask: who would be your Influence Character? And what would you consider to be the OS Issue? ---
**Author:** ![actingpower](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/actingpower/32/2201_2.png) [@actingpower](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/actingpower)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230/20 "2015-01-06T15:06:51Z")
The Muse, and Committing to be a writer, I assume. [Next page](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/eating-worms-for-inspiration-good-or-bad/230.md?page=2)