Inequity as the Noumenon

I can see how the reverberations from the boarding of the ship kickstart the MCT, ICT, and the RST; I can see how that moment splinters into all the other Throughlines in the Story.

Without that incident, this Storyform as a whole would not have happened. The cast as it is would not have assembled.

I can also see how Story Driver can either be action or decision. And this is definitely an action. The action that tied everything together.

I guess I have a problem with the Story Driver and the Initial Inequity being the same thing. If by Initial Inequity you mean the first witnessed (by the audience) action or decision in a movie that connects all the other Story Throughlines – then I can accept that as the Initial Inequity.

But if you look at the crawl:

It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.

During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire’s
ultimate weapon, the DEATH
STAR, an armored space
station with enough power to
destroy an entire planet.

Pursued by the Empire’s
sinister agents, Princess
Leia races home aboard her
starship, custodian of the
stolen plans that can save
her people and restore
freedom to the galaxy…

Part of the argument is that this moment is above and beyond the state of affairs or normal world before it. How can that be? They just had a battle (which the Rebellion won) and I hardly think that boarding a ship is an escalation from that situation.

If anything, wouldn’t it seem to be an exercise in restraint? Instead of blowing it into little pieces?

Lord Vadar is quite confident that the plans are on the ship. He dismisses Leia’s objections like a father would his daughter. There is no question whatsoever as to whether the plans are on the ship or not.

When Leia says these words, they aren’t prophetic in regards to what happens. The rebellion isn’t growing larger or stronger. I don’t see any indication of this in the movie (I don’t think). If anything, it is on its last legs.

This isn’t the definition of the Story Driver. The Story Driver is explicitly tied to the Overall Story Throughline.

This is conjecture about what might have happened, not what actually happened (which is what the storyform is about).

[quote=“museful, post:41, topic:1503”]
When Leia says these words, they aren’t prophetic in regards to what happens. The rebellion isn’t growing larger or stronger. I don’t see any indication of this in the movie (I don’t think). If anything, it is on its last legs.[/quote]

Who said anything about it growing stronger?

If you look at the storyform as a whole, within the context of Doing, the Story Drivers indicate an escalation of an Empire testing its agency.

First Story Driver - illegally boarding a ship. Hey you can’t do that, I’m going to tell on you. No you’re not because I’m going to dissolve the Senate. Ah crap, now what are we going to do?

Second Story Driver — you know what? Illegally boarding a ship without papers wasn’t enough, let’s see if we can get away with barbecuing some of the local inhabitants. Hey that’s not nice, now I’m going to join up and show you guys you can’t do that. Oh yeah? Well how about this:

Third Story Driver — we blow up your entire planet. Oh man…that’s messed up.

Each of these is an indication of Test within the context of Doing and each of these have decisions tied to those actions.

They don’t specifically say, hey let’s fight the Empire, but a narrative doesn’t have to directly express the Goal (unless it’s from Dreamworks) to function.

The storyform passes through the subject matter, the subject matter doesn’t dictate the storyform. You have to look at the bigger picture and how it all works together.

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I guess I’m saying that just because Leia says that it is bold and crossing the line doesn’t really make it so. Don’t we try to avoid conflating POV with OS.

I’m not sure that I see the Imperial Senate being dissolve as a direct result of an illegal search and seizure.

@jhull I had one of your articles open that seemed to say that the Story Driver is synonymous with the Initial Inequity. Unfortunately, I closed it and my Chinese Internet is acting up.

It said something about identifying the initial inequity then Story Driver was a parenthetical after the bullet.

My only guess here is that what the article is actually getting at is that the story kicks off with the driver, and the driver also makes the initial inequity clear.

Before they board Leia’s ship (driver), the Empire’s willingness to push boundaries is not “true” in the universe. Now it is true, and the struggle is on to deal with it.

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I guess I don’t see boarding a ship after a space battle as pushing boundaries. I see it as restraint.

I will look for the article again once I get out of my classes.

Thank You. Now we’re cooking with gas. And the last two Drivers are?

Hey, Let’s test this homing beacon out and see if we can find the rebel base?

And, the final one is —we are going to test the rebel’s resilience by targeting their base with our death machine…oh wait…the protagonist chose trust before we could verify our dominance…explosion!

So, the story goal is more like …to stop the empire from testing the rebel’s capacity for resilience in a civil war before the empire’s death machine ushers in galactic oppression?

Can you do the story drivers for Shawshank the same way you did here since it is an External OS with decision drivers? Seeing as how you did the user group analysis for that one, I bet it is still top of mind for you. I’m trying to figure out how to construct them from the Goal and Driver Type. It looks like the problem element is key.

I also wish there was a clear way to identify what the potential and resistance are for A New Hope OS and for Shawshank OS so I can compare how that fits in with stating the Story Goal.

Is the Protagonist the potential or can they be the Resistance in the OS throughline PRCO?

Thanks Mike, this is super helpful.

This also clicked from your thread for me here:

Chris said…
“The limited options in soft-edged optionlocks are frequently more obvious after the fact than during the story. Sure, there were only a limited number of ways the Empire could locate the Rebel base to blow it up, but we did not know what those options were until they were presented to us as an audience: scout the old Rebel hangouts, convince Princess Leia to give up the location, track the Millennium Falcon to the Rebel base, bring the Death Star to Rebel base and…climax! This is one way to look at the optionlock in Star Wars. Another would be tied to the Death Star plans: Get the data to Obi-wan Kenobi on Tattooine; get the plans to Alderaan; get the plans to the rebel base; figure out how to exploit the plans…climax!”

So, the Plans are part of the Story Limit and trigger the Driver. —There is my cause and effect in the storyform. ;). Anyway, that means they are part of the structure and not just storytelling, right? And, this supports Jim’s view of the Driver fractaling out from Physics/Doing/Test.

Looks like we also have a ways to go ;). Perhaps we should clean them up once we win the lotto.

The initial Inequity is sort of like Story Driver 0 before the back story followed by Story Driver 1. But, Like Mike said, Story Driver 1 is all you need because it implies the Inequity regardless of the back story.

The reason I say “sort of” is that I’m not as clear on how the OS Inequity functions where as I am super clear on the change character view of it.

I think the analog would be like which one is successful the Goal or the Consequence. But, I am not sure how locking down the expectation or the occurence works from the OS Throughline POV…would love some help on this part.

Building a Death Machine seems like an occurence. So, it seems like the Antagonist locked down the expectation that they would oppress people. Conversely, the Rebels would be the opposite? Like they lock down the occurence of being free and so their expectation of ending the encroachment would be Causing problems for them. I’m not sure how this works. PRCO? —How does one show the Inequity from the OS POV?

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This is the article I was talking about:

And the part that I referred to was:

  1. Identify the Initial Inequity (Story Driver)
  2. Determine what will resolve that initial inequity (Story Goal)
  3. Determine what happens without resolution (Story Consequence)
  4. Identify the forces of initiative towards that Goal (Protagonist)
  5. Identify the forces of reticence away from that Goal (Antagonist)
  6. Identify the personal point-of-view and its challenger (Main Character)

In retrospect, I understand that some things are parenthetical correlations rather than synonymic in nature. I think.

Yes. Just Storypoints related to that step.

What’s bolder than blowing up a planet?

Hey, why don’t we listen to this crazy psycho in a motorcycle helmet and let our enemies go?

I would say the final Driver is the Death Star blowing up. Your description would be good for the kind of motivation going on in the 4th Signpost.

The User Group for Shawshank was six years ago…but let’s see…

Looking at the storyform as a whole, within the context of Future (the Universe of the unjust imprisonment of an innocent man and the dark and doomed road ahead), the Story Drivers indicate an escalation of tension through supporting and endorsing others.

  • First Story Driver - Hey Mr. Dufresne, everyone here thinks you’re guilty but I think you’re an icy and remorseless man, so you know what? I’m going to double-endorse their conviction with two life sentences for you. Enjoy meeting the Sisters.

  • Second Story Driver - What did this fuckstick just say about my wife? Wait, he says I can use her (my support system) to avoid paying taxes? She’ll definitely go along with that. Enjoy the beers, boys.

  • Third Story Driver - You want to write some letters so these simpletons can learn to read? Fine, you go ahead. Write your letters–wait, you won’t open the door? I thought we were simpatico! Well then, you know what? Enjoy the hole (series of Decisions as its a slide in the Plot Progression)

  • Fourth Story Driver - Hey Tommy, let’s go for a walk. I heard you were thinking of testifying in support of Andy’s innocence. Oh yes sir, it’s the right thing to do. Oh, OK. Enjoy the bullet in your back.

  • Final Story Driver - Hmmm…I told Red all that crap about get busy living or get busy dying, but I’ve had it with this world. I’m all alone–wait, if I’m all alone then I really only have myself to rely on. You know what, let’s get busy living. Hey, warden, you were right – salvation lies within. Time to reap what you’ve sown.

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The question isn’t what you think about it. It’s what is true to the Story.

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These are so cool. Thanks! I would love to see you do a whole story form analysis with this sort of snarky comedy. It would make learning this super fun for us. I think the most powerul thing aout your Story Driver posts for Shawshank and Star Wars is that you gave me the POV for each one in the snarky voices.

Can we categorize a Decsion Driver as Mind or Psychology and for Action as Universe or Physics?

I’m wondering if these could possibly align with the bump slide pattern.

Like what if All the bumps are from one domain and the slides another for a given story and its drivers. What do you think?

Is it possible that the oppening driver to Star Wars is a slide and that is part of why this exercise was so hard?

Bumps and slides are clear for only three of the five drivers, right?

Just a quick philosophical detour. But, I have heard people often say that an inequity is not a thing and unknowable. But, the title of this thread is Noumenon and it seems like Noumenon more accurately describes the inequity as unknowable by a posteriori methods and therfore requires a stroy to connect to it. However, one could possibly know it a priori (like numbers) and it would therfore be like an archetype. Finally settling the debate that it is a thing in the sense that it is an abstract concept describing the relationship of an occurrence and an expectation and possibly knowable a priori and unknowable a posteriori.

So, a more accurate statement would be that inequities are not phenomenal.

Just in case this was bothering anyone else.

I’m going to have to get out my dictionary Brian :sunglasses:.

A priori (from what is before) knowledge is independent of all particular experiences.

A posteriori (from what is after) knowledge is derived from experience.

Used originally to distinguish between arguments from causes and arguments from effects.

I was kind of looking at Noumenon as describing the big “I” Inequity. The idea being, inequities (small i) exist everywhere… but until they are acknowledged, recognized, or thought of as such (become contradictory to a bearable zen/happy universe), they don’t become the big “I.” I thought this was where the “Sense of Separation” came into the picture.

I guess this requires my concept of Inequity to be posteriori or experiential. Maybe inequity is priori?

Once an inequity is recognized, it becomes an Inequity and knowable through phenomena? I found it interesting that what I thought as the Inequity could effect on a micro scale (MCT, ICT, RST) or a Macro scale (OST) first and then radiate out from that point of origin to each Throughline. That would explain the different Points of Attack.

I guess you could describe it in different ways. Trickle down Inequity or a reverberating effect Inequity in a pond. Whatever helps your mind wrap around it most easily.

Maybe illustrated by Chicken Little vs. Shenandoah (GREAT JIMMY STEWART MOVIE)

I wonder if an inequity is unknowable because it requires context and perspective derived from Universe, Physics, Mind, and Psychology? That’s kind of what I was touching on in regards to forms and objects that can be seen.

What was a little frustrating about this forum topic for me was the tendency of being told what is… but I didn’t see a very clear path (for me) in arriving at that conclusion without blind trust. I could very well be using a sense of separation, inequity, Inequity, Inciting incident, etc. wrong. But I want someone to understand my madness rather than just call it madness.

I’m a teacher/professor by trade. I use scaffolding to build my students to a particular level of understanding in performing arts. I don’t require an adherence to terminology and I have always believed that a reckoning between what a person already knows and what they are learning makes something stick (because that works for me).

Anyway, still just putting pen to paper and happy with the results regardless.

Are you a professor of Philosophy, per chance?

An absolutely understandable approach, which is actually quite different from mine. I tend to “wipe the slate clean” as it were, and allow the culmination of connections to reveal itself. It gives me a rather mechanical approach to many things, which is likely why Dramatica appeals to me as much as it does. To me, it feels much like programming or mathematics, while still allowing an insane amount of creative freedom.

But, now that I have a better understanding of what you seem to be looking for, if you’d allow me, I’d like to try a different explanation. Hopefully, I’ll be able to present my thought process behind it as well, and maybe allow you to follow a path.


When I first read the word “inequity” or “Inequity”, I had no concept of meaning to which I could attach the word, and definitions didn’t help. As you did, I found the example of a car and a desire for a car. I also tried to reconcile that language with experience, and I read it as “something to want” and “something wanted.”

However, I felt unable to reconcile this wording with certain other stories. Star Wars is one; my current WIP is another. Even Captain America: Civil War seemed to not quite fit. I had thought I missed something in my understanding, and I assumed that I was not being specific enough in my choice.

From there, I turned toward psychology and the theories about what desire actually is. These helped some, but they only brought me so far. Most claim desire is an internal feeling involving the mismatch of the current world and a perceived, possible, future world. This definition of desire so strongly resembled Jim’s explanation of [Ii]nequity that I tried expanding my own interpretation per my research.

That expansion went from “something to want” and “something wanted” to something more closely resembling what you have in your original post. I tried as a definition, “The way a character perceives the world and what is possible in that world does not match the way the world actually is.” Again, this brought it closer, but it didn’t feel like it quite reached what Jim was getting at.

Thus, I applied a different sort of thinking, and tried to look for the Inequity in these movies. For Star Wars, I asked what the characters could see? My interpretation was that the characters could see a world in which they were no longer under the thumb of the Empire. With that, I asked how that world really is? Again, I interpreted it as a universe in which the Empire exists. This certainly feels like an imbalance, but was it an/the [Ii]nequity? Well, that would seem to depend on who you ask, and it absolutely doesn’t match the conventional wisdom of an “Inciting Incident”. I couldn’t be sure, but I accepted it as close enough for purposes of use.

To really to to get a handle on what an Inequity may or may not be, I then tried to apply it to my WIP. I asked what my characters want. They, generally, want to know more about the myths and history of their world, especially how such history and myth derived. Then, I asked how the world currently is. Well, the answer: It’s a bit warped, as there is both the spirit world and human world, either of which barely hang on to the other through myth. This, to me, didn’t feel like what an/the [Ii]nequity was said to be. Time for another approach to define that elusive concept.

The new approach was to explore the gestalt of what connects all the characters, the POV (Main) character I chose, and why the story exists in the first place. This involved thinking about why I wanted to write the novel in the first place. Here are the reasons:

  • I have a character that was forced to shift into a spirit form.
  • I have a Dual World in which the actors in either mirror the other, and both worlds are unaware of the truth of the other, at first.
  • I have the POV character either accidentally calling, or being called, by the spirits. (Still figuring that out.)

However, none of these, as separate occurrences introduce any true imbalance into the fictional world. To see this, think about whether any of the statements can truly cause problems if left alone. It seems something needs to be added, or all three need to be mixed before a story can develop. Thus, I came to the conclusion that an [Ii]nequity is not completely knowable, but must be felt within the context of a story, as it requires a number of points before you can truly find what it is.

The results of this investigation led me to believe that it is extraordinarily easy to point out what an inequity isn’t, but to point out what it is requires showing it in context. Without context, there can be no inequity.


Wow that was a long post. Hopefully, I managed to write a path instead of a definition, though.

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No. I don’t mind it or stealing some concepts for my personal needs, but I sometimes find philosophy quite like bed-spins or a dog chasing its own tail.

I am a performing arts teacher at the moment. I teach at an international school in China.

A very Bruce Lee attitude.

I’m still deciphering my process. I find that I can feel overwhelmed if I don’t focus on the micro as opposed to the macro. The entire holistic vs linear debate is an interesting one for me. I feel holistic in many ways, but I recently came to the conclusion that it depends on the environment.

For example, if I am in Wal-mart and I’ve surpassed my tolerance of external stimuli, then I magically turn into a linear problem solver. I make a beeline for a solution. There’s the bread. Get it. Go.

At some point, every day, I hit a threshold where I can’t take external stimuli anymore. Which is hard sometimes because my wife is an extrovert. She has to go out to feel the stimuli or it will make her go crazy being stuck in the house.

If you are an introvert (or maybe this is something else just shoved under that umbrella) you probably know what I’m talking about.

Literally, I can be doing some writing on the bed and my wife will drive me crazy because she always has to have music playing and always has to have physical contact with me. Even those things can be too much sensory input.

So, my point being, I feel like my mental sex depends on the context. I don’t know if that is possible in Dramatica theory, but it makes a lot of sense to me. A helluva lot.

I’m trying to create a very rule-laden personal process for myself. I like working with a ruleset, but then breaking or bending the rules creatively. If I don’t limit myself, the sheer number of possibilities will leave me bewildered and stunned.

I can see a relation between PRCO and this.

Potential – A latent tendency towards some attitude or action.

Resistance – A tendency towards inertia.

Current – The flow of a process.

Outcome – An assessment of how things ended up.

But I find PRCO to be a bit slippery/elusive when trying to turn it into a process. Like trying to grab tofu with a pair of chopsticks. I’ve mastered that by the way. The chopsticks, not PRCO.

If the Goal is the target, isn’t the Outcome very closely related to this? Looking at the Dramatica definition and some of Jim’s writings about PRCO (I think in the article about the perfect scene or the article about the woman seeking a divorce), I get a distinctly different feeling about what Outcome is. I’m going to take another look at the two, but at the moment (from memory) I’m having a hard time reconciling the two definitions.

I appreciate your response. @Hunter. I’ve got a class coming up, even if there is more to be said. I suppose it will have to wait until another time. Thanks.

Wow, excellent post @Hunter.

I honestly think this is the best approach to learn Dramatica, because it is such a paradigm shift from other story theories. Constantly trying to see Dramatica concepts in light of those other theories, or vice versa, is just going to mess you up. For example, I’ve noticed a lot of references to Dwight Swain, whose book on writing* is fantastic – but from my recollection of it, 95-99% is focused on the techniques of story-telling. Not in the same domain as Dramatica at all.

* I’ve only read Techniques of the Selling Writer, so maybe he has other books that talk more about narrative structure.

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