Mary Poppins Returns discussion

[Greg]

@jhay

Full warning: I loved Mary Poppins Returns (though that is likely because, as a Brit, it is my childhood and because I also adore Emily Blunt),

Nothing wrong with that. As an American, I’ve seen Mary Poppins dozens of times and love it, but never read the books (though my kids got them for Christmas, so that may change quite soon). Sounds like MPR may be closer to the books? But Julie Andrews will always be the one I think of when I think of Mary Poppins. The movie is fine, I suppose, but I think I was let down because I was really hoping for something more like the original, and instead it felt like an adaptation of a stage play adaptation of some other adaptation of the original. I’m not big on the stage play feeling in a movie either (another one that had it was Into the Woods. My wife says it was the same director).

@jhay

The OS is the most obvious Obtaining story ever (‘Get the Money to Save the Banks House’), the IC literally flies in to influence those around her to live a little, etc.

Totally agree with all this, although I had trouble seeing an actual problem for Mary Poppins whether personally or from others perspectives. It just sort of seems like “oh, Mary says to do this, so let’s try that!” Felt weak to me, but it could just be me as well.

@jhay

MPR has what appears to be an MC hand-off (which I don’t ever recall seeing before). It’s introduced as Michael Banks who is grieving the loss of his wife and has become ‘too grown-up’ in his approach to life, and all of this then shifts to the kids for the majority of the movie (who similarly have become too ‘intellectual’), before shifting back to Michael right at the end. So you have this arc that they share of characters who start off ‘too grown-up’ and eventually learn to embrace their inner child.

Seems like the first one did something similar. I don’t know if the first one has any kind of storyform or not, and I’d be cautious to say this one had an MC hand off since I’m saying there’s not a complete storyform for it to begin with (though there could be one). But I’ll say that anytime I’ve thought there might be an MC hand off, I’ve pretty much decided after much thought that the “hand offs” were just OS scenes without the MC player in them. So it’d be neat to see a good example of an MC handoff to kind of get a feel for what that would be like.

@jhay

especially since the movie clearly makes an argument

Again, probably just me, but i wouldn’t’ve said there was much of a clear argument. MP’s scenes toward the end felt kind of weird and out of place. Maybe i didn’t pay enough attention earlier, but it seems like some issue came up right at the end that wasn’t really dealt with until right at the end.

[jhay]

@Greg

The movie is fine, I suppose, but I think I was let down because I was really hoping for something more like the original, and instead it felt like an adaptation of a stage play adaptation of some other adaptation of the original. I’m not big on the stage play feeling in a movie either (another one that had it was Into the Woods. My wife says it was the same director).

It definitely follows the structure of the original VERY closely, it’s just different storytelling. I think it’s a fair criticism. I happened to see Into the Woods the other day for the time since its release, and I completely forgot how stagey the second half is (not in a good way). MPR is more cinematically justified, I’d say, but I can understand your perspective there completely.

@Greg

Totally agree with all this, although I had trouble seeing an actual problem for Mary Poppins whether personally or from others perspectives. It just sort of seems like “oh, Mary says to do this, so let’s try that!”

I couldn’t identify the problem elements at the moment, I’d have to see it again. But pretty much all of her songs (or participation in songs) were pushing the Openness vs Preconception argument really strongly:

Can You Imagine That? – “So, perhaps we’ve learned when day is done/Some stuff and nonsense could be fun/Can you imagine that?”
A Cover is Not the Book – “Chapter titles are like signs/And if you read between the lines/You’ll find your first impression was mistook/For a cover is nice/But a cover is not the book”
The Place Where Lost Things Go – “Nothing’s gone forever/Only out of place”
Turning Turtle – "When you change the view from where you stood/The things you view will change for good"

And in each one, she kind of influences the kids (and Topsy in Turning Turtle) to open their minds to whatever she’s said (they suddenly get very excitable after CYIT; they start seeing Wilkins as a wolf; they think of their mother as ‘gone but not forgotten’; and Topsy decides she loves Wednesdays because she’s ‘quite contrary’). The OS Mary is the one that’s just kind of leading the kids through these adventures, but IC Mary is the one that has the ‘lessons’.

@Greg

But I’ll say that anytime I’ve thought there might be an MC hand off, I’ve pretty much decided after much thought that the “hand offs” were just OS scenes without the MC player in them. So it’d be neat to see a good example of an MC handoff to kind of get a feel for what that would be like.

I really, really believe this is an MC handoff. Because you have that really strong MC scene with Michael where he’s speak-singing to his wife about how he misses her, and when Poppins arrives, it’s the kids that pick up the ‘I miss our mother’. They’re all so consumed by their grief that they’ve (in the words of Dame Angela Lansbury) “forgotten what it’s like to be a child!” Nobody else deals with that in this story outside of those four.

@Greg

Again, probably just me, but i wouldn’t’ve said there was much of a clear argument. MP’s scenes toward the end felt kind of weird and out of place. Maybe i didn’t pay enough attention earlier, but it seems like some issue came up right at the end that wasn’t really dealt with until right at the end.

It’s possible I’m filling in blanks. But I do think they spelled out an argument of sorts – I just don’t know how much is there until I see it again.

[Greg]

Mary’s IC, and the whole storyform, may be stronger than I gave it credit for. I think I ignored the possibility of a handoff Mc because I had already kind of considered and then dropped the idea for the original, so I wish I’d paid more attention to how the kids and the fathers problems aligned.

[mlucas]

@jhay

I happened to see Into the Woods the other day for the time since its release, and I completely forgot how stagey the second half is (not in a good way).

Into the Woods is a GREAT, fun film if you turn it off at approx 1h20m. The rest of it seemed tacked on, and felt like a completely different story.

They even pretended to end it at that point (“they all lived happily ever after and … OOPS! we forgot about the giant!”). They should have.

[jhay]

@Greg

I think I ignored the possibility of a handoff Mc because I had already kind of considered and then dropped the idea for the original, so I wish I’d paid more attention to how the kids and the fathers problems aligned.

I always assumed the original was a dysfunctional story until I saw Saving Mr Banks and then it was like ‘oh, yeah, of course she comes to take care of the father as well as the kids! They have the same problem!’

And with this one following pretty much the same basic template of the first movie, it was just really obvious from the outset that they were going for that same MC hand-off idea. They even acknowledge (sort-of) that they share a problem in the first act:

MARY POPPINS: “I’ve come to look after the Banks children.”
KIDS: “Us?”
MARY POPPINS: “Oh, yes, you too.”

[Greg]

@mlucas

Into the Woods is a GREAT, fun film if you turn it off at approx 1h20m. The rest of it seemed tacked on, and felt like a completely different story

Exactly! First half great, second half felt like the direct to video sequel.

[Greg]

I loved Saving Mr Banks, maybe we should do an analysis of that one! I caught that line in MPR and a few other lines that I felt were definitely influenced by the existence of Saving Mr Banks.

[RailwayAdventurer]

The idea of an MC hand-off in both the original “Mary Poppins” and “Returns” is very interesting to me. I wonder what the storypoints are for the MC throughlines in both films, especially the elements shared between Mr. Banks and his kids/Michael and his kids.

@jhay

I happened to see Into the Woods the other day for the time since its release, and I completely forgot how stagey the second half is (not in a good way).

@mlucas

Into the Woods is a GREAT, fun film if you turn it off at approx 1h20m. The rest of it seemed tacked on, and felt like a completely different story.

They even pretended to end it at that point (“they all lived happily ever after and … OOPS! we forgot about the giant!”). They should have.

@Greg

Exactly! First half great, second half felt like the direct to video sequel.

I’m glad to know I’m not the only one that thinks this. I’ve seen both the play and the movie, and both are so enjoyable until the false ending. The rest leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There’s no doubt in my mind that it has at least somewhat to do with broken structure.

@Greg

I loved Saving Mr Banks, maybe we should do an analysis of that one!

Absolutely agreed. I’d love to analyze it!

[Greg]

@RailwayAdventurer

. I’d love to analyze it!

Looks like it’s on Netflix now. Would be a good time to give it another watch.

[jhay]

Having just seen it again, I don’t think there’s a solid storyform there for MPR. There are parts that are very clear to me, but I can’t make it all line up as one.

It feels very strongly that the Banks Children/Michael’s handoff MC Throughline is a changed Logic to Feeling arc (abandoning the adult ‘logic’ for the childhood fun of just ‘feeling’), but it feels a stretch to apply that to the OS outside of the thing at the end with the balloons (which is also after the final driver).

And, likewise, I think Openness has to be Mary’s IC Issue (the MC counterpoint of Closure is too good – with their mother/wife and all), but I can’t make it work.

It all just feels kind of there, but not totally. Still loved it though!