Question About Closure

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#1

I was wondering, does an Issue of Closure have to be problems resulting from something being over, or can the problem be from trying to end something?

Ex 1. A character who’d been forced into retirement has lost their sense of purpose and now sits around complaining and bringing everyone else down.
Ex 2. A character’s desperate effort to make amends with a family member who’d rather stay estranged than revisit painful memories just pushes them apart further.

Can Closure be something like a character trying to stop depression by drinking, which causes dependency problems, or is Closure more of a permanent thing, like a lost job that can’t be regained?

#2

I’d say both of those definitely fit.

Your first example works for sure – conflict is coming from the fact he was forced to finish working, but he hasn’t been able to come to terms (get closure) on that. Hasn’t been able to move on.

Your second example might need to focus more on the “closing down” part of it – like the character is trying to end the estrangement. It does sound like you’re bringing in the Counterpoint (Denial) – the family member rejecting his efforts – which is cool.

Closure or its lack could definitely result in depression and drinking, but I don’t think the stop in “trying to stop depression by drinking” really fits Closure. The character isn’t actually trying put an end to it, just trying to escape. However, there could be any number of Closure-related issues behind this. (e.g. they know they need to get divorced but afraid to pull the trigger and end the marriage)

#3

I’d just wondered since Closure contains the “Avoid” element and the description had said stuff about a repeating process/closed loop.

Ending something sounds external, so what’s it doing under Mind? Do the problematic effects have to fit the Mind domain too?

#4

The deeper you get in the model the more the external vs. internal becomes obscured. Plenty of variations that fall under external Domains can seem internal (Preconception has some of the same “being prejudiced” gists as Mind, yet it’s under Universe). Or vice versa – e.g. the Situation variation is beneath Psychology!

No, the effects of conflict don’t have to fit the throughline Domain. The story points are about the root of what’s causing conflict, the underlying motivations and issues. (As examples, consider Zootopia and The Princess Bride – plenty of external effects like chases and fights as a result of OS conflicts which are, at the root, internal.)

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#5

We wouldn’t have to explain why the effect is a problem, right? Like maybe a character can’t get the family together for Christmas dinner anymore and must cancel the long-standing tradition. Why is the end of dinner a problem? Dead ancestor’s recipes will be forgotten. Why is that a problem? Because… backstory guilt stuff or whatever.

#6

I think maybe I should point you to this thread:

I think there’s a lot of leeway in terms of how much you have to communicate to the audience; the whole “trust the reader” thing is important and you can communicate a lot with, say, a line of dialogue or an emotion. But I think you (the Author) should be clear about the real reasons why something is a problem.

You don’t have to ask why forever though, you can go with “has to cancel the Christmas dinner which sucks because his ancestor’s recipes are important to him and now he doesn’t know how he’ll keep them alive.”

#7

I don’t know why I keep coming back to “why is this a problem” thing, as if something just doesn’t stick for me or I’m afraid of messing up. I do recall reading that thread. I should look over it again. EDIT: I did and it kind of rambles on, adding more confusion. I mean, it’s not enough to have 2 things that can’t co-exist at the same time, but one must add a problematic outcome of that dilemma, IIRC.

#8

Ignore any of my ramblings that might have been in that thread. I was still trying to figure it out at the time. The easiest way for me to think of it is how does this element create conflict? No big formulas or anything needed.

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