# Shouldn't most stories have a decision driver? **URL:** \ **Category:** Dramatica Theory\ **Created:** [September 28, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747 "2016-09-28T01:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TerryVog](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/terryvog/32/1486_2.png) [@TerryVog](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/TerryVog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/1 "2016-09-28T01:36:37Z")
I’m having trouble understanding how the story driver is determined. What I understand of it so far, is that the distinction is made to determine whether a story begins with something that happens to them, or with a decision. Great, but unless there is a force of nature at work, shouldn’t all stories begin with a decision? Because everything that happens to us is because of someone’s decision, right? Or is it important to determine who decides? Which would mean that our MC either has things happening to him/her, or he/she decides something? Similar to the story judgment, being how the MC feels about it at the end… ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/2 "2016-09-28T03:33:06Z")
Most events happen in some sort of decision/event/decision/event chain. Darth Vader decides to board Princess Leia’s ship – Decision. He attacks and boards the ship – Action The Droids decide to jettison themselves – Decision They land in the middle of a desert – Action They decide which way to go – TWO decisions, since they split up. Of course, I’m leaving out a major event – the Rebels steal the plans for the Death Star. And before that, they Decide to steal the plans… But, notice that neither of those things is in the movie. We don’t see it. We just get it in the crawl. Also, Darth Vader deciding to go after Princess Leia? We don’t see that either. The story is framed to begin after that. And the key word there is _framed_. The author is deciding where in the infinite chain the story goes. ---
**Author:** ![mlucas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mlucas/32/275_2.png) [@mlucas](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/mlucas)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/3 "2016-09-28T12:40:31Z")
Also, remember there are lot of Actions that can happen that are not FORCED by a Decision. You mentioned force of nature, and that certainly fits (weather, earthquakes, etc.), but there are plenty of others… - A discovery (there is some gray area depending on whether a decision was made to research or look for the discovered thing, this is where Mike’s _framing_ may come into it) - Getting sick, being diagnosed with an illness etc. (unless someone decided to purposely expose / inject the character with a disease) - I think any unexpected outcome of something, even if a decision went into it, could be framed as an Action driver because the decision did not FORCE that particular action. - Any action/reaction where the character might afterward say “I didn’t mean to…” - Noticing something - An accident, a sneeze, a roll of the dice… In case you haven’t seen this article, it’s really helpful, especially the section on the Story Driver Test: [The True Nature of the Inciting Incident](http://narrativefirst.com/articles/the-true-nature-of-the-inciting-incident) ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/4 "2016-09-28T14:47:30Z")
> [@MWollaeger](#): > > where in the infinite chain the story goes. And where it starts? I love your frame analogy, metaphor, simile, description. It shows that the writer is an artist, who paints with words. ---
**Author:** ![Alejandro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Alejandro](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Alejandro)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/5 "2016-09-29T14:09:03Z")
I think what Dramatica asks you to decide is where in this chain are you going to start. As @MWollaeger wrote, you could think of a previous decision for every action or a previous action for every decision, going all the way back to the first Jedi or the first Sith, but you as an author get to choose where you are going to start to tell the story, ignoring all previous decisions and events. ---
**Author:** ![mlucas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mlucas/32/275_2.png) [@mlucas](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/mlucas)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/6 "2016-09-29T21:45:21Z")
Hi @Alejandro, I definitely agree with you, but I think you have to be a bit careful with this: > [@Alejandro](#): > > you as an author get to choose You do get to choose, but by choosing a First Story Driver, you are saying that event (action or decision) is special and different from the other events before it. Prior to the story starting you have either no apparent inequity (everything seems fine), or a “balanced inequity” where things are not fine but the opposing forces are balanced so that you don’t have the type of drama that makes a story. The First Story Driver upsets that balance, adding something “new” to the previously balanced system, and FORCING the events that follow. Maybe that’s what you meant by “ignoring all previous decisions and events”? – i.e. saying as an author that they are not important, they are not what is driving this particular story… ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/7 "2016-09-29T21:59:25Z")
Hi Terry, No, it’s not important who decides as the Story Driver is tied to the Overall Story Throughline more so than the Main Character Throughline. A Story Driver tips the scales and creates an inequity - or separateness - where there was once oneness and peace. @mlucas is right - the _FORCES the other half_ is the most important aspect of it. You can’t just consider and Action or Decision in the same way you can’t just consider a Main Character Throughline without an Influence Character Throughline. The causal relationship built with _x FORCES y_ is the stuff of the storyform. ---
**Author:** ![TerryVog](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/terryvog/32/1486_2.png) [@TerryVog](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/TerryVog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/8 "2016-09-30T03:24:12Z")
Thank you all for responding. This gave me a better understanding of action and decision drivers. Still it is hard for me to decide how to apply it to my own story. (I know this is the ‘theory’ section; not ‘writing’ – sorry for that) I cannot look at how the story is framed, or at the consistency of the act turns, because maybe I didn’t do it right. The causal relationship between x and y is sometimes hard to see, especially because people would make different decisions (or actions) although the same thing happens to them; yet they all might feel forced to that decision (except maybe the zen monk, which probably makes his story very boring). I can see that the action might force **a decision** , but since it can be **any decision** (dependent upon personalities etc), I doubt if there is any causality at all. ---
**Author:** ![mlucas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mlucas/32/275_2.png) [@mlucas](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/mlucas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/9 "2016-09-30T04:01:50Z")
Story Driver is definitely hard when it comes to your own story. I got it wrong for my story – I thought mine was Decision but it turned out (after Jim analyzed my synopsis as part of his narrative first services) I was wrong, it was Action! In hindsight, I think it would have been _very_ difficult for me to see that on my own. What might work for you is to try to create a short synopsis of your story (short enough for a friend to read, so maybe 1-2 pages?). Then show it to a friend or two, if they don’t know Dramatica that’s probably a good thing, and just ask them what they thought the real turning points are, the important events that change the direction or feeling of the story. You could also post it here; if you don’t want it to be public you could make it a private message and invite forum users who are interested (private message threads can have multiple people). Anyway that’s just my suggestion, maybe others would have better ideas. ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/10 "2016-09-30T05:45:27Z")
Another way to look at it – a softer version of _forcing_ – is to ask “could this have happened if X didn’t happen before?” The fact that it could be _any_ decision is fine. Are we all supposed to react to things the same way? \_\_ ---
**Author:** ![TerryVog](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/terryvog/32/1486_2.png) [@TerryVog](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/TerryVog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/11 "2016-09-30T11:01:39Z")
I can agree that Jim’s analyzations are very helpful. I did his free [From logline to treatment course](http://narrativefirst.com/courses/from-logline-to-treatment) and I was very pleased with what he and his team provided. I can only imagine how helpful his [mentorship program](http://narrativefirst.com/mentor) would be. Unfortunately I can’t afford it; I am unemployed and I try to use the extra time I have to pursue a dream of mine: writing a novel. It would be very helpful if some of you would want to take a look at my 1-page synopsis to see what the story driver would be. (And maybe also the OS/MC problem; that is the other choice I’m not sure about.) Please shoot me a personal message if you want to have a look at it, and don’t feel obligated to answer if you don’t know either. ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/12 "2016-09-30T16:38:12Z")
As a hobbyist from v.1.6 days who also wants to be a professional writer, I suggest you practice writing the story from the beginning with the intention of starting with decision, then another with the intention of starting with action, and see how you interpret using those concepts. Coming at it from different angles can only help flush out the final product, so no loss. Some stories emphasize the OS, like with mysteries and some emphasize the RS, like with romances, then the other is only touched upon. Think: what do I want the MC problem to be, then write a lot about it. …on the run, here, so more thoughts later… ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/13 "2016-09-30T17:20:35Z")
There is an alternative approach, similar to what @Prish is recommending. If you just write the story as you see it, you’ll be figuring out the storyform also. Instead of approaching it through the program, use your understanding of the story and let that be your guide. If you come across a scene where you _don’t know_ what to do, then try a couple of things. Learn to sense what feels right. Experiment. You might surprise yourself. \_\_ ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/14 "2016-09-30T17:33:53Z")
Hi @TerryVog Thanks so much for the plugs–but you should never feel like you can’t ask us questions about the synopsis you worked on in the course. While the mentorship and consulting is more for dedicated pursuit and study, we don’t mind answering one-off questions. That said - I looked up your treatment/synopsis and your story is TOTALLY Action driven. Your storytelling focuses on the decisions your characters make but it’s always in response to an action that happened and _caused_ them to make those decisions. @MWollaeger’s litmus test: “could this have happened if X didn’t happen before” is the key to getting used to this. A difficult thing for those new to Dramatica is to understand that it looks at your story not at your storytelling. The storytelling is everything you write, so the story–the part that Dramatica is looking at–is this kind of invisible thing that works in the background. You just have to build the skills to jump from looking at your story subjectively (when you write) and objectively (when you analyze, plan). You’ll get there, but it does take some time to get used to. ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/15 "2016-09-30T17:53:06Z")
I was going to add this earlier, but somehow left it off. If your characters are having _lots of decisions_ that almost seems like it has to be because there was an _action_ that preceded it. The Driver has to be _one thing_, which rules out _decision_ here as the driver. [Clarification: the driver is one thing, but that one thing can be a compilation of several things: a city getting bombed and overrun by an invading army is a huge single event, even though it might take up quite a bit of time in the storytelling.] You can’t have an effective driver if you have one person deciding “It’s time to quit my job” and someone else deciding “Let’s vote for Sally for class president.” Those things push the story in different directions. ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/16 "2016-10-01T02:48:05Z")
As an exercise, watch this trailer and see if you can figure out how the movie would begin and end with an Action Driver and with a Decision Driver. Throw in a Driver in the middle – doesn’t matter where – if you feel up to it. I think it will give you a sense of what they are like, and having a bit of distance from your own story will help. https://www.youtube.com/embed/b6TvhT-okSU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/17 "2016-10-03T02:05:51Z")
How could you put a driver in the middle? ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/18 "2016-10-03T02:16:37Z")
Stories have drivers all over the place. The most important ones are the ones that divide the acts, including the ones that start and end the story. I haven’t thought too too hard about it, but I’d venture that every story _must_ have five drivers: • Begin the story • Transition from Act 1 to Act 2 • Transition from Act 2 to Act 3 • Transition from Act 3 to Act 4 • End of movie But this doesn’t preclude having drivers, even multiple drivers, in the middle of an Act. • Luke discovers the Princess is on board the Death Star and decides to go get her. • Darth Vader realizes that Obi Wan is aboard the Death Star and decides to confront him one on one. • Obi Wan realizes Luke needs him more dead than alive, and decides to let Darth Vader kill him. Mike ---
**Author:** ![Prish](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/prish/32/33_2.png) [@Prish](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Prish)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/19 "2016-10-03T03:16:07Z")
> [@MWollaeger](#): > > Obi Wan realizes Luke needs him more dead than alive, and decides to let Darth Vader kill him. So, is his realizing an action or is this a decision driver? I took it, at first, as a decision driver, then I wondered if observing and realizing could be an action, or is it just part of the decision process? ---
**Author:** ![MWollaeger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/mwollaeger/32/82_2.png) [@MWollaeger](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/MWollaeger)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747/20 "2016-10-03T04:00:48Z")
I think in this case it’s an action because it is a thought that strikes him as he sees Luke. There’s no deliberation. [Next page](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/shouldnt-most-stories-have-a-decision-driver/747.md?page=2)