# Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan Online Analysis **URL:** \ **Category:** Analysis and Review\ **Created:** [July 29, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46 "2014-07-29T22:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/22 "2014-08-06T18:49:28Z")
Excellent! OK…Influence Character? ---
**Author:** ![SPotter](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/spotter/32/85_2.png) [@SPotter](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/SPotter)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/23 "2014-08-06T18:52:55Z")
Main Character = Captain Kirk MC Issue = (not able to narrow it down yet) feeling old and useless, following his expected future instead of his desired future, being the admiral instead of the captain. ---
**Author:** ![bobRaskoph](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/bobraskoph/32/75_2.png) [@bobRaskoph](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/bobRaskoph)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/24 "2014-08-06T18:57:10Z")
Influence Character is honestly the most difficult to answer for me. To me it seems like the part is shared between Spock, Dr. Marcus and to a lesser extend Bones. ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/25 "2014-08-06T20:30:01Z")
Who challenges his approach to doing things? ---
**Author:** ![bobRaskoph](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/bobraskoph/32/75_2.png) [@bobRaskoph](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/bobRaskoph)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/26 "2014-08-06T20:36:27Z")
Khan, David and Saavik? ---
**Author:** ![Dan310](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc348/32.png) [@Dan310](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Dan310)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/27 "2014-08-06T20:40:41Z")
I would say Spock. This is because to the very last moment Kirk is still wanting to go head to head with Khan with wanting to transport onto his ship to disarm the bomb. Spock shows him an alternative to resolve the issue and its RUN! Essentially, going round for round isn’t the best way to approach a nemesis such as Khan. The alternative is to retreat. ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/28 "2014-08-06T21:35:09Z")
I would probably leave Khan for the Antagonist role (just guessing). So we have Spock, Dr. Marcus, David, and Saavik (I’ll leave Bones out) as potential Influence Characters. What are the kind of relationships Kirk has with each _outside_ of their objective roles within the Overall Story Perspective. ---
**Author:** ![bobRaskoph](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/bobraskoph/32/75_2.png) [@bobRaskoph](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/bobRaskoph)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/29 "2014-08-06T21:50:37Z")
**Spock** : Old friends and companions **Dr. Marcus** : Old flames **David** : Father and son seeing each other for the first time **Saavik** : Teacher and Student It seems to me like Kirk’s relationship to Spock and Dr. Marcus are more about his age and his relationship with Spock, David and Saavik about Kobayashi-Maru/facing no-win scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/30 "2014-08-06T22:42:12Z")
And so that would kind of indicate that Spock and Dr. Marcus are players in his Main Character Throughline. I think the no-win scenarios thing is a big part of the Relationship Throughline. ---
**Author:** ![Dan310](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc348/32.png) [@Dan310](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Dan310)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/31 "2014-08-07T02:02:37Z")
I feel a little lost by what Jim said. What does it mean that they are players in the Main Character throughline? If we are to continue on the “no win” path as the emotional challenge to Kirks approach. Then Saavik appears to be the strongest representative of that. Her desire to understand the purpose of the simulation and also how Kirk performed in the test is what seems to be of most interest to her. Just not sure how this influences Kirk yet. ---
**Author:** ![SPotter](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/spotter/32/85_2.png) [@SPotter](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/SPotter)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/32 "2014-08-07T04:20:10Z")
I definitely feel like the heart of the story is in the relationship between Kirk and Spock. There are definitely some hand-offs but the relationship starts with Spock and ends with Spock. ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/33 "2014-08-07T17:01:04Z")
> [@Dan310](#): > > I feel a little lost by what Jim said. What does it mean that they are players in the Main Character throughline? By players I mean that they’ll be responsible for bringing up issues and concerns that are a part of Kirk’s Throughline. If Kirk’s personal issue revolves around age then those who hit upon that will be helping to expose his Throughline to the audience. Let’s hold off on the Influence Character/Relationship Throughline momentarily and figure out the **Main Character Resolve**. Does Kirk Change his approach or does he Remain Steadfast? ---
**Author:** ![SPotter](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/spotter/32/85_2.png) [@SPotter](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/SPotter)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/34 "2014-08-07T18:27:28Z")
Does Kirk have a problem being selfish? Spock teaching him the good of the many outweigh the good of the few (or the one)? Or is that Overall Story or Relationship Story. Kirk is definitely out of balance at the beginning. Bones: “Other people have birthdays. Why are we treating yours like a funeral?” the obvious choice is age and at the end (as stated earlier) Bones asks, “How do you feel Jim?” Kirk, “Young. I feel young.” I suppose it’s possible he was fighting to feel young all along but I think it’s more likely he was resolved that his adventuring life was over and at the end he feels like it is just beginning. Rebirth. **CHANGE** ---
**Author:** ![DarkCellar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/darkcellar/32/1517_2.png) [@DarkCellar](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/DarkCellar)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/35 "2014-08-07T20:23:07Z")
New here, but couldn’t resist chiming in. I think Saavik is a good candidate for IC because she contradicts Kirk by quoting regulations throughout the story. When Kirk ignores her advice, that decision causes a major obstacle by allowing Khan to severely damage the ship. Having said that, I think you could make an argument for Saavik being the MC and Kirk being the Protag. It seems quite a lot of the story unfolds to Saavik as it does us, including the plot “twist” where Kirk’s plan to deceive Khan works. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![SPotter](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/spotter/32/85_2.png) [@SPotter](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/SPotter)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/36 "2014-08-07T21:16:13Z")
> [@DarkCellar](#): > > Saavik is a good candidate for IC Interesting. That would make the MC story pretty thin but that never stopped Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![jhull](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/jhull/32/3_2.png) [@jhull](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/jhull)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/37 "2014-08-07T21:42:57Z")
Actually that is an interesting argument. I haven’t seen the film in awhile. Having seen it about a hundred times when it was out on VHS I figured I wouldn’t have to for this. Might have to check it out again this weekend… My recollection was Kirk as MC, Saavik as IC with the “regulations” being their key source of argument as proposed by @DarkCellar. There are scenes with just Saavik and Spock, right? Potentially MC Throughline material? Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![DarkCellar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/darkcellar/32/1517_2.png) [@DarkCellar](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/DarkCellar)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/38 "2014-08-07T22:48:17Z")
True. Spock is sort of a guardian for Saavik, helping her understand humans. ---
**Author:** ![Dan310](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc348/32.png) [@Dan310](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/Dan310)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/39 "2014-08-08T04:34:02Z")
I like what you said DarkCellar and I will agree with that. Now in light of this, with the question of Steadfast or Change I will say that Kirk remained Steadfast (not to discount your alternate MC theory i think you have a very valid point) however, in keeping with the current theory, its my belief that at the moment of crisis do we firmly set our feet into Kirks shoes. I believe the scene with his son illustrated this. David Marcus essentially said that Kirk should follow his own words because they lead to great ideas despite whether or not Saavik called him out. And that he was wrong about him (Kirk) and that he had a change of heart. Kirk had doubts about himself in this scene but his son helped him reaffirm his stance. So if Saavik represented “regulations” i don’t see Kirk following through with that. ---
**Author:** ![geoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@geoff](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/geoff)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/40 "2014-08-08T22:37:40Z")
Kirk would be the MC because we follow him from the very beginning. We are aware of his view of his personal problems. As for IC, I suggest there are two of them: Carol and Spock/McCoy. There are several reasons for proposing Spock as more than just an OS character. He gives Kirk the birthday book as a message, which Kirk finally recognizes in the epilogue. During Spock’s death scene, the Vulcan points out a similarity with Kirk. He never took the Maru text until that decision. His death definitely makes an impact on Kirk, matching the theme of Kirk growing older and having to finally confront “the worst of times”. He can’t just chalk it up to good luck any longer. As for story form, the one I worked out actually matched the one for “Galaxy Quest”. I think it’s an option lock because Kirk and Khan are trying to catch each other. Khan must obtain the Genesis device, he must kill Kirk, he must obtain control of the Reliant. It’s only when he has all those things that, in the climax, there’s a clock ticking away. ---
**Author:** ![DarkCellar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex010/user_avatar/discuss.dramatica.com/darkcellar/32/1517_2.png) [@DarkCellar](https://discuss.dramatica.com/u/DarkCellar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46/41 "2014-08-10T22:24:20Z")
Kirk is a logical choice for MC. I was just stretching my Dramatica wings. 😄 [Previous page](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46.md?page=1) [Next page](https://discuss.dramatica.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-online-analysis/46.md?page=3)