The Domains of a Guy Stuck in a Well

theory
#1

In my perpetual quest to wrap my head around distinguishing between domains, I was thinking about what often appears to be the most obvious domain – situation – and what seems like an especially obvious example: a guy is stuck down a well. Let’s assume this is definitively assigned to the Main Character throughline – that it’s really only the main character who’s dealing with this. Leaving aside goofy ideas like “maybe the guy lives in a well”, I’m curious how being stuck in a well might not be in the domain of Situation.

The following examples could all be wrong, but this is what came to mind:

Situation: A person falls down a well and can’t get out. It’s not their fault and they’re trying everything reasonable to get out, but until some new external factor comes along, they’re stuck.

Manipulation: A person suffering from ever-worsening self-esteem falls down a well. They could get out if they tried, but they can’t bring themselves to do so, interpreting this accident as evidence they’d be better off dead, and thus just waiting to die.

Fixed Attitude: A person falls down a well and could probably get out if they tried hard enough, but doesn’t believe they have the strength to do it. So they just keep waiting for someone to rescue them.

Activity (this one I’m the least sure of): A person falls down a well and could get out if they figured out the right method, but they keep trying to climb up, falling down each time, and thus getting more and more injured.

I’m wondering if these examples are correct in terms of Dramatica, and thus get some sense of the boundaries between what a throughline looks like on the surface versus what actually defines it. So am I way off base here? Are they all situation, regardless?

The Domains of The Sixth Sense
#2

They’re all Situation.

#3

So any story with an MC in a well automatically has the MC throughline in situation? Would that mean any story with an MC in prison or lost or anything like that is always in Situation?

#4

I think the question is faulty: stories have more than one character and concerns, at a minimum. So there is no real way to determine if what you present here pertains to the MC or the OS. There is no :muscle: question. A guy falls down a well and this is a problem because?

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#5

As I mentioned in the original post, “let’s assume this is the MC throughline”. However it sounds like it doesn’t actually matter since Jim’s saying if the guy’s stuck in a well, it’s situation in all these examples.

#6

Yes because the inequity there is a guy stuck in a well. The other question - about prison, etc. - depends, because there are a bunch of different factors now. The well question is pretty straightforward.

#7

Whoops, I missed the bit about this being an MC throughline. Sorry about that.

Anyway, Jim aside, try this: force the OS into a Situation. “The Earth is in the path of a planet-killing asteroid.”

Now have the guy fall into a well. What stories come to mind?

I ask, because I don’t think it’s possible to learn unless we put ourselves through the paces.

#8

The thing is, if the MC throughline is about a guy stuck in a well, and Jim has indicated that is without question in Situation, then you can’t force the OS into Situation as well. In other words, an OS about the Earth being in the path of a planet-destroying asteroid can’t have an MC throughline about a guy stuck in a well – that would simply produce a broken storyform.

#9

Not necessarily: it could also produce a storyform that has the MC in Activity or Physics. And understanding why that is could help you on your…

#10

It can’t be both: either, as Jim says, guy stuck down a well in the MC always means situation, or it doesn’t.

#11

This thread has now turned into a metaphor.

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#12

Maybe, but it’s also a pretty straightforward effort to clarify a simple question: if a throughline is about a guy stuck down a well, is that throughline definitively in Situation? You can answer “yes, because the inequity is a guy being stuck in a well” as Jim has said, or “no, because X”, but it’s not entirely helpful to come back with: [quote=“MWollaeger, post:7, topic:1266”]
Jim aside, try this: force the OS into a Situation. “The Earth is in the path of a planet-killing asteroid.”

Now have the guy fall into a well. What stories come to mind?
[/quote]

Because 1) I already gave three examples in which a guy is stuck down a well where his throughline isn’t in situation (thus we’re free to assume the OS is about a planet-killing asteroid), but as Jim said, it doesn’t matter because a guy stuck down a well is always in Situation, and 2) I’m not asking out of a desire to play a fun exercise. I’m really, honestly, and simply looking for a clarification about how Dramatica views a particular domain.

#13

I think the point here is that in your alternate examples, you haven’t shown how low self-esteem, lack of confidence, or failing strength are a problem for the character except when he’s stuck in a well. Thus the conflict comes from being stuck in a well, thus Situation.

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#14

Can “stuck in a well” be restated in a way that makes it internal or a process?

Only way I can think of to write a story about a guy stuck in a well, but not have it be in Situation/universe, would be to use it as storytelling rather than storyforming. “A guy is stuck in a well, which is fine. It’s a nice well. His real problem comes from trying to make friends with the snake. Making friends with the snake was a problem because x”.

In that way, you have a narrative about a guy stuck in a well, but not an MC throughline about a guy stuck in a well.

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#15

Another suggestion, not sure how this would play out, but try answering the question “how is this a problem?” by answering with some form of “because he’s stuck in a well.”

Why is low self esteem a problem? Because it prevents him from attempting to escape the well.

Again, I think you’d still have a narrative about a guy stuck in a well, but not a Throughline. The throughline is about losing or gaining self esteem.

#16

I’m sorry you don’t think my asking you think about the problem in a different way as helpful. I always find that trying to manipulate the clay of a story’s parts to be a useful way to learn.

By the way, here is a similar situation to your well story:

A guy dies and is stuck in the limbo between earth and the afterlife. It creates massive problems for him.

Is that a Situation?

No, because M. Night Shyamalan.

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#17

@Gregolas and @decastell, Suppose the whole story starts with the MC concerned with surviving(Doing) the night in a well inhabited by vicious rats as his punishment for sleeping with the chiefs only daughter, while the OS is in Universe. The objective characters are worried about the progress of his punishment as it will get even worse by midnight when the rats usually get into a wild frenzy. Not that great but it’s just a quick example.

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#18

A guy tries to commit suicide by jumping down a well. Now he’s stuck in the well, but alive. If he gets out of the well by the end of the movie, he’ll still be suicidal. Is the throughline in Situation or something else?

I don’t think the throughline domain simply equates to a more general version of the MC’s problem, and it’s really the domain that I’m asking about.

It’s not a fairy tale well he was born in, or in an alternate reality where people like to live in wells. It’s a well. He fell into it and is now stuck.

This was pretty much one of the examples I gave. I suspect Jim’s point is that the domain is not the source of the problem but the nature of the inequity – the thing that unbalances the preceding normal state of affairs. So whether the guy can’t get out of the well because the walls are slick or because he’s too scared to try or because he doesn’t believe in wells, he’s still stuck in a well and that’s within the domain of Situation. I could be completely, utterly wrong about this, which is why my question is: “If the MC throughline is about a guy stuck in a well, does that mean – in all cases – that the MC throughline is in Situation.”

The problem I’m trying to address is literally the one I keep stating: is a guy being stuck in a well (not a metaphorical well, not an imaginary well, just a well) by definition in Situation.

All I’m trying to do is get a direct answer to that question. Jim has given a direct answer to the question, but now the follow-ups from others contradict it, so that’s what I’m trying to get at. If, you never, ever address that contradiction but instead keep framing it as me needing to expand my mind, we’re really never going to get anywhere. I appreciate that sometimes socratic dialogue can sometimes be an engaging way to illuminate philosophical questions, but this isn’t one of those times.

I confess, I have no idea what that means, and I’ve seen most M. Night Shyamalan films.

#19

You’re going to hate this but – how is ‘being suicidal’ problematic for the guy?

Hear me out – I ask because of stories like Groundhog Day, where Phil Connors hoped suicide would break the cycle. In that case, being suidical was only bad in that it didn’t work.

Is being stuck in the well preventing the guy from doing what he wants, i.e. suicide? If so, then yeah it’s a Situation. But if if isn’t, if he’s going to die anyway from dehydration / hunger / injuries while he’s down there, then there really isn’t a conflict in the first place – he’ll get what he wants, just delayed.

So per Jim’s answer above, you may have come up with a scenario that will always be a problematic Situation (from MC perspective).

#20

New member here with two cents, be kind!

Dramatica is expressly focussed on Grand Argument stories.
It believes that a narrative missing one or more Throughlines is a ‘Tale’ not a Story.
Therefore, if your hypothetical does not intend to be broad enough to accommodate the constituent parts of the theory as set, then it is by internal definition, a Tale and not a Grand Argument Story?

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