Antagonist/IC trouble

writing
#1

Hi All,

So, I’m struggling with something in one of my short stories. Good lord, I’m even having trouble articulating the problem. I’ve started and erased about a dozen sentences. Characters and their roles. Let me lay them about below and then maybe y’all will have some good advice for me.

MC - Layla (Also like the Protag but I have a question about this) (Steadfast, Stop, Do-er, Linear)
Sidekick - Kosey (Layla’s brother, possible protag because he has the something OS character is trying to take/get)
Antagonist - Hep (possibly the IC, but then again prolly not)
Guardian - Tevel (maybe guardian? he only shows up for one scene and is very much an example of the consequences of not following the Antagonist’s plan)

Plot (Action, Option, Failure, Good)
OS: Activity, Obtaining, Self-interest, Control)

It could be that my problem is what I really want to tell is actually a tale and not a complete story. But I don’t seem to have an IC other than the Antagonist, who doesn’t have any sort of relationship (either growing or decaying) with the MC. I’m really confused as to who is playing which part.

The story happens because Hep has been sent to collect something from Kosey. Layla is Kosey’s protector and the struggle really is between Layla and Hep. with what becomes of Kosey (insanity vs addict vs Layla’s 3rd option) as the stakes. The attempt to take Kosey’s which-a-ma-hoosie fails. What am I doing wrong? What am I not thinking about right?

HELP!

#2

Here’s how it looks to me:

First Driver: Hep is sent to collect something from Kosey.
Goal: Maintaining Kosey’s ownership of the something.

If you want Hep to remain the antagonist, then he must be opposed to the goal, not in pursuit of it (if you want the goal to be “taking it from Kosey,” then Hep becomes your protagonist).

Currently you haven’t shared enough info about the other characters and what they want to accurately determine their roles. Kosey could be a straightforward protagonist (protecting his item), but it’s possible that Layla is more invested in that goal, with Kosey being an obstacle to his own interests and thus a contagonist. Need more data!

Regarding MC / IC, from what you’ve shared, you could explore the sibling dynamic between Layla and Kosey. You would need to decide what they bring to the story separately from the OS concerns – apart from protecting Kosey’s ‘something,’ what drives them to do what they do? What problems would they try to solve even if Hep weren’t on the way? These would define their personal throughlines.

#3

Do you have any details about your MC Layla, like Problem/Solution or Symptom/Response? Or could you share in normal language (non-dramatica) about what drives her or motivates her, what problems she has, how she sees and reacts to the world?

The reason I mention that is that I think knowing the above can really help you identify your potential IC, based on the Two Sides of the Same Coin concept. Quoting that article:

This commonality revolves around the concept that the Influence Character explores the same issues as the Main Character, only from the opposite viewpoint.
One will be dealing with issues externally, the other internally. In other words, if what the Main Character is dealing with is some internal issue like an empty heart, the Influence Character will be dealing with some kind of predicament. Think Scrooge and Marley from A Christmas Carol. Scrooge is heartless and Marley is forced to wear those chains. One is an internal problem, the other external.

The reverse is also true. If the Main Character is dealing with external issues, the Influence Character will be dealing internal versions of those issues.

So for example if you know that your MC is dealing with the problems that come with having to take care of a drug-addict sibling, the IC might be someone that struggles with being taken care of.

Hope that helps.

1 Like
#4

I would have to second what @LunarDynasty and @mLucas are pointing to. It sounds as though Layla is currently only an OS character. We would need to know more of her personal issues before she could be considered the MC.

Once you know her issues then an IC can be incorporated to challenge her approach.

#5

You’re not doing anything wrong. You’re doing what every writer does–figures out their story. Only you have Dramatica behind you, which is making it easier to put things in their right place.

Everyone else is right - why is Layla the MC? And if you don’t have someone challenging those personal issues then you don’t have a story (in the Dramatica sense).

#6

@LunarDynasty This seems to be the possible crux of my problem. Is it ever possible that the MC is against the OS goal? Because that’s the story I’m looking at, an OS where X organization monitors for Y Thing, which Kosey unknowingly has --let’s call it a genetic condition. So Hep is dispatched to correct the sitch. (because this is a short story this all happens off stage). Hep captures Layla and Kosey and is using force to fix the problem. Layla and Kosey are young and only dad has been in the pic, and he’s an alcoholic (because of his “cure” to said genetic condition). So Layla has always been the one taking care of Kosey. They are all each other has and he’s her responsibility. Layla will do anything to protect him. After their capture Kosey is medically sedated and isn’t able to be active in the story, although he is still Layla’s primary motivation.

@mlucas Hmmm. The closest I have is Hep and Layla, they are both after saving family (brothers, in fact) there are parallels between them. But not a relationship as such. I can shoehorn one in (teacher/student) but it feels forced.

@brendon_oloughlin huh. Her issues are fighting against the person who kidnapped them and trying to keep bad things from happening to Kosey.

@jhull I need to echo my above question to you. Can the MC ever be trying to prevent OS goal? Is Hep (the person actually trying to achieve the goal (get Kosey’s whatcha-ma-hoosie) the actual protagonist/mc, and I just identify a shite ton more with the IC/antagonist Layla?

Cuz that feels all kinds of wrong and backwards to me. On the other hand, that might explain why I’m always having so much trouble with Dramatica and why things seem flipped around frequently

That seems how lots of OS stories would be though…The Bad Guys are tying to do a thing and the Good Guys are trying to stop them from doing the thing. That’s why I asked if I was doing something wrong…

Thank you everyone for you input. I’m sure I’m closer, but more ideas are welcome.

1 Like
#7

ABSOLUTELY. The Main Character can be anyone. This is one of the coolest things about Dramatica – you can assign the MC to any of the archetypes. Entirely up to you. Stories with MC-Antagonists that come to mind are How to Train Your Dragon and Good Will Hunting.

Hep can be the protagonist (the primary pursuer of the goal), but that’s strictly an objective assessment, it doesn’t mean the audience has to identify with him – that’s the realm of the Main Character, the personal subjective perspective.

I’d focus on the second half of that statement, “keeping bad things from happening to Kosey,” as that sounds like her drive regardless of whether Hep is in the picture or not.

Considering that this is a short story, it will be trickier to include a robust IC throughline in addition to a full OS and MC. @jhull had a cool article about applying Dramatica to short stories. Basically you treat your short story as one piece of a larger, complete narrative that is alluded to within the slice itself.

#8

Hi @jassnip (Diane),
First off, your story sounds really cool!!

I’m pretty new here, but I think you should start with what feels right to you. I think your instincts are pointing you to a Story Goal of “defending Kosey’s Macguffin”. I’m pretty sure keeping, holding onto, protecting and defending are all perfectly valid story goals. (Obtaining is probably the best fit, though it could match other concerns too, depending on the emphasis. e.g. if the Macguffin was Kosey’s frozen embryos and she’s now infertile, the goal could be Innermost Desires representing her deep desire to have children. Or something valuable needed to secure her future could be The Future, a keepsake from her dead mother could be Memories or The Past, etc.)

The only thing to mention with a “keeping” story goal is that for an Outcome of Success, you’d want it to feel like their hold on the thing is pretty solid at the end, or that they kept it long enough to get the value they needed from it. i.e. not like the badguys could just send another enforcer to grab it.

#9

Hi as @LunarDynasty, @mLucas and @brendon_oloughlin pointed out. I think you’re focusing on the OS characters and not analyzing enough the Objective Characters (MC, IC and their relationship).

Hep collecting something from Kosey, Layla protecting Kosey are mostly concerned with their OS roles (Protagonist, antagonist, sidekick…).

BTW, I think it could be argued that Hep could be considered a protagonist (not necessarily the MC) because he proactively wants to do something - collect something from Kosey. And Layla or Kosey the antagonist because she/he wants to avoid this.

So, maybe this is one of those times where the protagonist isn’t the MC and the antagonist isn’t the IC.

I entered the options in the software and I got:

MC Domain: Situation
MC Concern: The Future
MC Issue: Delay
MC Problem: Support

IC Domain: Fixed Attitude
IC Concern: Innermost desires
IC Issue: Hope
IC Problem: Control

RS Domain: Manipulation
RS Concern: Changing One’s nature
RS Issue: Commitment
RS Problem: Control.

I think you should ask yourself which characters fit the IC and MC roles according to this.