The story goes that I was able to create a Scrivener and Dramatica versions of my novel. Then I was sending it to my mentor in the MFA program in 20-25pp. installments for critique. Then I was fixing these pieces after the feedback. Now I have too many versions, scenes, pieces. Did you ever had to deal with anything so crazy? Itās my self-diagnosed ADD, I suppose, or writing anxiety, or perfectionism, or whatever. What to do? Should I just print them all and compare? I would rather stay in one format, but all these different ways of doing things help me at some point, but then become obstacles. Dialectics in action.
Hi Jenya,
How complete is your novel? How comfortable are you with your Dramatica storyform ā does it feel right to you?
When you say you created Scrivener and Dramatica versions, do you mean you actually wrote the novel within the Dramatica software? Or only an outline for the novel?
I have been in a sort of similar place with all sorts of ideas, too many ideas and not knowing how they fit together, so I can feel for you. Dramatica (with mentorship) has helped immensely. But I was only outlining not actually writing first draft, so my wild beast may have been a bit easier to tameā¦ 
I have a few more questions for you but donāt want to inundate you so Iāll wait for your response.
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I had 167 files earlier this year all pertaining to one script, ultimately totaling 110 pages. The whole thing was a mess.
I eventually took this approach:
I consolidated all of my notes into one outline.
I had one rough draft.
It meant taking everything, reading it, using it right away or throwing it out. Ultimately, I found that my older notes were uselessā¦ they pertained to a story that no longer existed. The newer drafts were more important. I figured that anything I should have kept, but didnāt, would get fixed with new ideas. Letting go and having fewer documents to worry about became more important than keeping everything.
Good luck!
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Hi Mike,
My novel has an outline, an idea, characters, plot-lines (a few), settings, descriptions, scenes (maybe 6), and backstory for a couple of characters. Some of them I tried to copy and paste into the Scrivener as I was editing and going forward. Then I went into Dramatica to see where I was stuck and to find out where I was going. At this point, I have different versions of the same scenes, and I am not sure if I need to compare them or do what @MWollaeger did with his draft.
I think it is mostly outline and the very beginning of the novelās idea & relationships & dynamics in Dramatica. I do not understand Dramaticaās storyform completely. I think I am better at it, but thereās room (lots of room) for growth.
Thank you so much, Mike, for all your suggestions, questions, and support.
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I donāt know if youāre having trouble with having too many story forms, but have you separated out your throughlines? Iāve got a big mess as well and trying to learn stuff like that. It seems like itād be especially hard if you have an OS and MC in the internal domains. If, by chance, you find yourself looking for answers, then ending up with a bunch of new questions about story forms due to clicking down a rabbit hole of articles out of fear that if you donāt, you may miss out on a vital piece of information that could make or break your work, then questioning where to draw the line between ābadā perfectionism and healthy analysis because you want certainty, youāre not alone. I wish I had an answer to solve that.
Mikeās advice sounds good. I like to hang on to my outdated notes and scenes, but stick them in a separate section (Iām using yWriter, so Iāll have scenes organized under a chapter, and I add a scene called āscrapā and dump the stuff I cut there) so theyāre out of the way, but I wonāt have to worry about the off chance of needing something thatās been lost forever!1!
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I would recommend to use Dramatica just for storyforming, and maybe the Build Characters window. Then you can export the reports (like Story Engine Settings, Plot Sequence Report if you happen to use that, Build Characters if you use that), and do your work in Scrivener or word processing software.
If you can get the Outline solid where you can see a lot of your storyform working in it (like most of the main story points come into it somewhere), and you can see the 4 Acts broken up by Story Drivers, then you will be in an awesome place. At that point the Signposts will tell you what fits well in each Act. But, it can take some work to get there.
Let us know if you have any questions at all that we can help with! Good luck!
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Thank you, Mike. I think itās a good idea. I am still learning about Dramatica, and not sure in my understanding of concepts & terminology. What is the best way to approach it? Theory book?
Thank you, @SharkCat. I did not separate my throughlines, I should do it, thank you. What was your best way of getting to understand Dramatica?
Iām still having trouble so Iāve started a bunch of threads. Iāve read the book, I look at examples in the program. The Narrative First blog can be helpful. Iām not sure my trouble is with Dramatica itself but my own story (the thread on RS confusion has turned into talking about trying to figure out my throughlines). I donāt know about your story issues, but since some aspects are negotiable in mine, I find it hard to settle on one story form since Iām not sure what to cut out or not to better serve the story.
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The best way to approach it is to focus on the ābig picture itemsā ā look at breaking stories into the four domains, understanding the Drivers, understanding Outcome and Judgment.
Come here and ask lots of questions. Thatās a requirement, basically.
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Donāt forget the Limit! 
It doesnāt affect much of the other variables in the program, true, but I wouldnāt underestimate its effect on the audience. Iāve watched too many shows and read too many books that feel utterly lifeless because, without a Limit, they have no heartbeat.
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Thank you, @MWollaeger, @actingpower , and @SharkCat !
I will follow you advice. I am doing the free course with NarrativeFirst, and it seems to help. Should I create new topic for every question? I am not sure about time & options limit at this point. It seems that my characters have different limits. Can it be? Should I create limits for every throughline?
Yes. That way they stay focused.
I would work on these after the other ones I suggested. There will always be something you donāt understand, and you can get lost trying to figure it out. Understand the other things 100% and then ask this question. (In my opinion.)
If you really want an answer now, I will answer it for you.
ā¦Oops. 
Sorry, both of you. I guess for me, knowing the Limit helps me center my understanding of where the story is going and when the deadline will hit. Iām sure for other writers, itās other things that help them pin down the direction of their story. Drivers are important, obviouslyāseparating the Four Throughlines, also. If Iām starting at square one, I usually just go through the 12 Questions, but another option might be to try pegging down the Overall Characters. I dunno. Ultimately, what matters is identifying what is important to the story and what doesnāt advance the intended argument.
Just to be clear, what Iām really recommending here is: pick just a few things and learn them cold. I think understanding the four domains is the most important and that Outcome is the easiest, so you will be able to move past that one the fastest. That is why I chose those two.
I think Drivers are straightforward too, but others do not. Still, I think this will be fast.
Iām picking things I think will be fast, not things that will be the moat valuable. Ultimately they are all important and everyone finds the things that help them the most.
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Thank you, @MWollaeger!
I am reading Dramatica book, but how do I know to focus on these categories that you mention? Should I just skip the rest? Confused
I was going to make a whole list of what I think are the most important things to learn about Dramatica in order, but then I realizedā¦ the Dramatica comic book does just that! Have you read that yet? If not, I highly recommend it. The artās a little dated, and there are typos here and there, but itās a great informal walkthrough of the key concepts of Dramatica.
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I wouldnāt think of it as ignoring anything, but I would spend a bit of extra time focusing on the things I mentioned until you understand them.
ā¢ Judgement
Rewatch a favorite movie or reread a favorite book. What is the mood at the end of the movie? What is the mood of the Main Character? and, importantly, how do you know?
Example: At the end of Star Wars, Luke, Hans and the Wookie all get medals in a ceremony filled with pomp and circumstance. They all seem happy and they are smiling with each other.
You donāt need to know much about the rest of the movie to know that this is a Judgment: Good.
There are rare stories where it is not this obvious, and if you read or watch something where you donāt know, just skip it, or ask here for guidance. Find ones you recognize, and build up from there.
This moment is usually not subtle. So once you begin to recognize it, it is pretty easy to incorporate into your own work.
ā¢ Outcome
A bit trickier, but usually by feel you know if a movie is a Success or a Failure. Again, you must be able to point to why this is true. The feeling will guide you, but then you have to back it up with facts. This means you have to find the OS Goal, define it, and see if itās been achieved.
Example: In Lord of the Flies, the boys want to attract the attention of the British Navy. Specifically, Ralph wants to do this and he is the Protagonist. Last Chapter: The British Navy comes to the island. Success.
I like this example because, even though Ralph is the Protagonist, he is not the one that brings about the Success ending. It does not matter who makes it happen.
ā¢ Drivers
Ask yourself āWhat happens at the beginning of the story that forces the story to happen?ā
Ask yourself, āWhat happens at the end of the story that lets me know itās over?ā
See if you can start to recognize Actions and Decisions at these two moments. (There are more, but focus on these two.)
The forces is important. I can decide to become a lawyer in the first scene of a movie, but if an flood hits my city and the movie is about saving people, then you know that my decision to go to law school isnāt relevant to the OS. Maybe itās relevant to my MC thread. Maybe itās filler.
ā¢ Domains
Okay, this is the hardest one on the list, but itās the beginning of deep knowledge.
- Listen to the podcasts. Watch the movies, and then listen to the first 30 minutes. You will hear how we sort these out. We ask questions, basically: āWhat is the overall story?ā āWhat is the the MCās personal problem?ā Then we put them into the four domains. Learning to see these, like all things, just takes practice. Rest assured, this is easier in a group, so if itās hard doing it aloneā¦ well, yes, itās hard doing it on your own. Thatās just the way it is.
- Make up stories you never plan to write. Do this on your own or with the Brainstorming button. Come up with an OS, MC, IC, and RS. Make sure you are making them discrete. (Non-overlapping.) Practice, practice!
When you have questions, start threads, and ask away.
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