.#2 sounds really good for me.
I’ve always wondered how others use Dramatica for their craft.
.#2 sounds really good for me.
I’ve always wondered how others use Dramatica for their craft.
Seeing others reactions here I’ll toss my hat over to the #2 side as well. Looking forward to seeing your blog or pod or video cast. Given we are all writers here, I see a blog as necessary aspect of what your are doing, even of you choose to pod or video cast, because you’ll need a spot to post whatever you’ve written (storyform outlines, story appreciation descriptions, and your prose).
Judging by the reaction, over just a few hours here, you’ll have an audience of at least 6 other interested folk. That’s a start!
Oh yes to #2 please!
I agree with everyone here that there’s just not enough information on story creation using dramatica, especially in novel/ short story format.
While a podcast is good, an accompanying visual aid would also be helpful…perhaps in the body of the blog. When I say visual aid, perhaps just a list of dramatica terms you are using in that particular podcast. The reason I suggest that is due to my own experience of having listened to podcasts about Dramatica, I often pause mentally to translate the term being used before continuing. Doing that 3 or 5 times in the course of a single podcast, I eventually lose track of what is being said and the podcast is rendered useless to me. So, having a relevant terms reference list would be really helpful.
Finally, about trampling on anyone’s turf…I have a few thoughts on that that might help you overcome any trepidation and instead get you to trample away!
Hope that helps.
I really look forward to seeing whatever you decide to do!
Wow, thanks everyone for the feedback! I guess option 2 it is!
With that said, I’m off to draw up some podcast episode scripts. I’ll try and keep folks posted in the coming weeks as to when I’ll be able to get this thing off the ground.
And P.S. if anyone has any podcast name suggestions, I’d definitely welcome those too! Otherwise it’ll probably just be “Story Structure with Audrey,” which might be kinda lame.
STORY EXPLOSION with AUDZILLA!!!
FYI… The last podcast episode of Narrative First entitled “Story Structure Senioritis” is pretty awesome. Perhaps Jim, like you (Audz) and us here on this thread, is sensing everyone chomping at the bit about using Dramatica not only for an analysis tool but as an expansive and powerful creation tool. I seem to just eat up anyone sharing their process of how they create with Dramatica. So far the models I’ve encountered on creation are:
The tuturials that Chris Huntley narrated as the start-up user videos for Dramatica Story Expert.
The annual Storyweaving Dramatica User’s Group events. That fact that this is done only once a year while they have 11 monthly (wonderful) analyses a year illustrates how Dramatica has been more favored as an analysis tool rather than as a creation tool.
Armando’s creative process outlined in the book “Dramatica for Screenwriters”
@jhull’s processes described throughout his Narrative First blog and podcasts.
@jhull’s process that he started in this week’s Narrative First episode entitled “Story Structure Senioritits” (that I noted above) in which he begins demonstrating taking a story from a raw storyform (with gists) and giving it shape. I hope he continues this series to a point where we can see the path from story form to more finished work. (Jim is clearly establishing himself as an expert and leader in the creative aspects of Dramatica. It’s good to see.)
To me, using Dramatica as a creation tool is the most underutilized and lesser understood aspect of it. Bravo to those continuing to forage the possibilities of Dramatica as a creation tool.
@MiggsEye, awesome post.
One thing I’d like to add is that what we’re missing right now is examples of going beyond the outline stage with Dramatica, into the actual writing of a novel. (There’s not that much for screenplays either, but Armando’s book has some as does @Jbarker’s thread.)
Stuff like, you think you have your storyform down pat, but then halfway through your first draft you begin to doubt it. What should you do?
Or, your storyform is working great and seems more accurate the more of your first draft you get. So you want to use all that storyform goodness to help you along… except, buried in the heads and situation of your characters, you’re not really sure where you are in the story – like which Act/Signpost you’re in. Was that thing that just happened an Act Turn? Or is the thing coming up? It’s hard to use the very valuable Signposts and PSR when you don’t know where you are. Even if you outlined fairly extensively, a lot of things can change from your outline, making your “location” uncertain.
Then there’s the question of, if you give a character enough POV time in your novel, and personal-seeming issues, isn’t it perhaps likely that your subconscious will create a substory for that character (with them as MC)? How can you tease out whether that’s true and if it is, what the storyform is and how it interacts with the main one? Or is it perhaps better just to leave it alone, let your subconscious handle it?
Those are just a few examples. I could probably come up with a list of a hundred things that I wonder about all the time! Most if it in the intersection between Dramatica and the writing process, which will vary among writers.
Greg, I think you should start your blog. You could always put a disclaimer on the “about this blog” page that mentions you’re still learning. But the truth is, we all are – even Jim and Chris.
And dude, I’d definitely read everything you blogged about even if you thought it was already covered, it’s cool to see others’ perspectives!
Happy to see that post from several years ago is so helpful to other people. I originally did it on G+ and copied it over, but at the time, there really wasn’t anything else out there and I read Armando’s book repeatedly. I think the best suggestion I could give is to jump in and don’t worry about failing; doing so will result in getting nothing done and you’re much more likely to find it a more rewarding experience with others (e.g. readers) going along for the ride.
I haven’t written anything on my blog since before my dog passed away earlier this year, but I’m always amazed to see how many referrals I get from college websites and several high schools where the articles are apparently part of a curriculum (this one always has me smiling, if you go down to during and after viewing/an expert’s opinion.) I’ve been in the midst of something completely different (starting a biz), but the grand plan is for that to allow me more time down the road to focus on writing. I just needed a break with everything that’s happened this year (it’s been a nightmare.)
My advice as a potential reader/viewer to anyone creating Dramatica related content would be to do your best to upload said content mainly between November or so and late Feb/early March. Jim has a whole built-in audience that I bet starts jonesin for some Dramatica content right around those months.
Don’t get me wrong though, I’m also perfectly willing to browse multiple Dramatica sites a day.
I don’t have much to add to this conversation other than to say awesome idea @Audz. And I agree with everyone that #2 would seem to address a real need. Addressing @mlucas questions about process would be particularly welcome – Armando’s book is great for example, but all of his examples are very neat and idealized where as reality (at least when you’re still learning?) feels much messier. Acknowledgment of that and how to deal with it could be very useful. On that front, if you were interested, interspersing interviews with other experts could be cool as well.
Regarding option 1 – I think that’s actually a great idea too. I know nothing about Middlemarch other than it’s a great novel and it’s really long so it probably has multiple storyforms. There’s actually very little Dramatica analysis at that scale – for obvious reasons – but I think there’s a need for it, given the move toward series/serials across media and genres.
For a title, think backward from google search terms that people would use. I send much encouragement and pledge to listen/read!
Writing with Dramatica
Getting Started with Dramatica
How to Use Dramatica
Dramatica for Beginners
It would be great to have a troubleshooting segment too, where perhaps you interview an expert on how to handle such and such. I’m at a loss for examples, but I’m always running into trouble.
I’d also love to see real examples of how people use Dramatica to create shorter works: short stories, essays, etc.
How about Dramatica to create 4 panel comic strips?
Dramatica in the real world? Dramatica as a means of self-examination, exploring one’s personal issues (or hypothetically personal issues)?
I wondered about Dramatica as a means to compose subject matter for Art. Paintings, Murals, etc.
So much to play with here.
How about titling it: A User’s Guide to Dramatica? It keeps it humble, from a users perspective, rather than an experts. However, having expert interviews would be fabuloso!
I think @HaroldLloyd’s suggestion of using a title that is search optimized will get you the most mileage.
@HaroldLloyd, seems like Practical Dramatica might’ve crossed my mind as a potential blog name a time or two. Might be on to something there.
“Dramatica in Practice”?
The thing is though, I dunno if the name “dramatica” is proprietary. I mean, I’m guessing Chris and Melanie would be fine with it, but I’m a worrywart, you see.
I like the name “Dramatica in Practice”. Short, to the point, and practical.
Dramatica is a registered trademark of Write Brothers, so you have to be careful using without getting some sort of sign off from us/them. Certified Dramatica Consultants, like Jim and Sandy Stone, have some flexibility with using the trademark, since they’ve gone through the process of proving a working knowledge of the Dramatica theory and usage.
At a minimum, if you want to use Dramatica® formally, we request proper attribution and notices.
That said, don’t let that stop you from moving forward with your blog/podcast/video series.
@Audz I’m an aspiring novelist who has been struggling to implement the dramatica theory into my own work so option 2 would be awesome.
You certainly seem to know what you’re talking about. And there really hasn’t been much of anything dealing with novels. And not enough people talking about implementing dramatica into a piece of work from start to finish.
I’m excited to see where you take things.
How dare you even consider moving in on my territory!
A new voice discussing their experiences with Dramatica would be incredible. One of my intentions behind building this forum was to lessen the resistance encountered when learning and discussing the theory. Individual blogs and podcasts are another way to achieve this same goal and, from my own experience, a fantastic way for the publisher to increase his or her knowledge of the theory.
It’s a tremendous amount of work–the seasonal approach (Mar-Nov) is one way I can guarantee the quality of the episodes (and the articles), and a method I would highly suggest (however your seasonal inclinations turn out). Plus, it gives me time to wrap things up and work on other projects (like the Atomizer).
I always find the work of others inspires me–so if there’s more work in this space, that means further development of my work and the theory in general, and then that means things keep going up and up…
…in other words, yes, please!
In regards to Story Structure Senioritis and a more practical approach to Dramatica, for some reason, I always feel inspired to write more about how to use Dramatica in the creation of narrative towards the end of November. I did it last year, my articles always trend towards that area as the clouds roll in, and then I hibernate and write, and then once I see my shadow in Feb, come back out and start the whole thing again.
I recorded the second part of that episode this week (and the season finale) which ended up being twice as long as any episode–but I’m sure you’ll appreciate the discussion around how to build a story (instead of tearing one down). It’s all based on my work with novelists and screenwriters (though most of my work is with novelists) and my experience with the Deliberate Storytelling service I offer on my site.
I actually ended up really liking the story I made up on the spot and–if I can manage the time–will end up writing it. The only thing is–once you get into the actual writing of the piece, it shifts from theory to the talent of the individual (from Knowledge to Ability…and eventually slides into Desire), and from there the process becomes very subjective. An individual artist could take my outline and come up with an entirely different story. It’s difficult to quantify the talent and perseverance that happens at this point–which is why I don’t spend a lot of time on it.
Every artist is unique and maintains their special approach to the material. The people I work with are insanely talented–and uniquely original–all I can do is help them understand how Situation and Circumstances work within the context of Doing and then it’s up to them to actually make it land on the page.
That said, I can relate to this:
It bugs me that so many writers are missing out on the kind of depth Dramatica theory can provide to their stories
As that pretty much sums up my motivation behind Narrative First.
Personally, I can’t stand listening to other podcasts on writing or screenwriting as they delve too much into opinion and storytelling. A new voice focusing on Dramatica and insights into different approaches to applying the theory?
I’ll be the first to subscribe.