Difference between Concern and Response?

questions
#1

I was thinking of MC Concern as a personal goal for my character, but I got confused by the theory in the program which says, “The Main Character is motivated by an element of character within him, yet he is driven toward an outward purpose in the attempt to satisfy that Problem.” How does that differ from the MC Response to what they believe the Problem is (Symptom)? Would Concern be a goal that’s supposed to solve the Problem or Symptom, or a goal that the Problem or Symptom prevents from being reached?

For example, my anxious Change MC wants to stop being afraid. IC is going to drag him around making him face fears. MC has a Response of Avoiding his fears (or giving in to the Temptation to Avoid them), which technically, though temporarily, fulfills the goal/Concern of stopping fear. However, if I were to specify that he prefers to Become courageous or calm, then the Avoid Response interferes with that goal, since he needs to face those fears to overcome them.

#2

Question: Who is the protagonist in this story and what are they doing? What is the OS Goal?

Second: it can help to share the Domains you are putting people in.

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#3

Agreed. Difficult to know if your storyform is helping you with ‘stopping fear’ without knowing the Domains / Concerns you’re working with.

#4

IC is protagonist. He makes MC face fears through Activities, though couldn’t you say his impact is psychological?

I think the OS goal is either making better futures (they are different for each character) or being motivated by wanting to feel loved or worthy of love.

By the end, he learns to have faith that he can challenge his fears, or that the best way to rid oneself of fears is to face them.

My instincts say

OS: Fixed Attitude, Innermost Desires (they all have wishes they want to come true, and they want love)
MC: Psychology, Changing One’s Nature (MC wants to become a calm and a better person)
IC: Activity, Obtaining (help get a cure for MC, hopefully get a reward)
RC Situation, The Future (MC anticipates the worst (while IC tells him not to) and acts on those fears, messing things up for IC)

#5

A big difference between Concern and Response is scale. Concerns are broad, sweeping general reactions to inequity. Responses are specific, narrow responses to the Symptoms of the inequity.

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#6

Here is what I am getting from your post:

The Protagonist has a goal – some kind of personal gain – and he must use X (who is also the MC) in order to get it.
The Protagonist also wants to make better futures possible for a bunch of people.
There are a lot of people who are pursuing better futures.
You describe the MC as a do-er (he avoids doing things he is afraid of) but see him as either in Fixed Attitude or Psychology.
I think you think the Protagonist is the IC because he is forcing the MC to face his fears.

All in all, I think it’s not quite lined up with Dramatica yet, which just means that some things have to be clarified. Have you seen Dead Poets Society? This has a Protagonist who is affecting lots of people, but is not the IC.

#7

I think my protagonist will turn out to be a complex character, but becomes most active in helping others (Pursuit).

In addition to making MC face fears, Protag represents a face-your-fears, more reckless approach. However, there is another candidate that could fit IC who represents the path of courage that MC could’ve but never took. Once MC learns of how this character achieved the things he wishes he could’ve, MC wishes to basically become that ideal character which is why I picked “Changing One’s Nature.” I suppose I could set MC as Obtaining (an escape from suffering, cure for anxiety, the affection of the character he envies) and IC as Changing One’s Nature since he inspires it in MC, but depending on which is IC, may not be interested in it himself so I’m not sure that would count. This potential IC wavers at the end, but MC, now changed, helps set him back on his Steadfast path.

It’s kind of hard to picture an MC who is dragged into scenarios by someone else as a Do-er though. By “avoiding” I mean that sometimes he hides if he might be pushed into an uncomfortable situation, wishes to run away if upset, or tries to talk his way out of things that may make him anxious.

Yeah, I did watch Dead Poets Society not too long ago.

#8

I think I’m going to need details before I really understand what you are talking about here.

Here is why:

Hiding is doing. Talking one’s way out of something could be doing, but it could also be manipulative. Wishing to run away… that could even be doing. It doesn’t seem like it’s trying to solve the problem internally.

Getting sick and therefore unable to participate is Being. Convincing everyone you’d be a lump on a log and ruin an event… Manipulative.

When you say that your Protagonist is going to be a complex character… are you saying that to explain why he/she could also be the IC?

I just think you’re jumping ahead to an answer ("…why I picked Changing One’s Nature") before you can really define what the details of the story are.

I understand that it can be hard to share details in a public forum, but they would help. You can PM me if that makes you more comfortable.

#9

Part of the problem is I’ve got lots of details about the beginning, middle, and end of the story, way more subjective than objective, but I’m looking to stick them into a storyform to focus things and fill in the holes. In the time since I posted my question, I did narrow down one storyform, but none of them have been perfect. I have perfectionistic tendencies and have attempted many versions of this storyform, so eventually/soon I’ll have to put my foot down and go with one instead of obsessing.

By “complex” I just wanted to clarify that I wasn’t necessarily going to use all the Archetypal Protagonist traits, but that he’s moving action along, so maybe I should’ve said “Pursuit” character instead of “Protagonist” as shorthand for that role.

You might be right about Doing. MC has a problem with trying to fix things with outside means like hiding, seeking the approval of others, and engaging in compulsions instead of tolerating anxiety until he gets desensitized like he should be doing. Maybe it’s about the need to take more risks too. He worries a lot though, which is mental.

Current IC might sometimes use manipulation to push MC to do things like saying “If you back out, you’ll hurt that other person’s feelings” but sometimes he encourages activities like maybe going busking with a guitar and trying to get MC to sing along in public. Sometimes it might be a bit of both like setting MC up on a date with someone who shares a special interest of his behind his back and springing it on him last minute at the restaurant to discourage him from avoiding human interaction.

Maybe I should switch ICs. The current one is kind of like a coach and they don’t always agree on things, but the other one is the ideal who continues to spark MC’s envy, yearnings for a better life, and self-loathing. “Maybe this is who I could’ve been if I wasn’t such a coward.” MC and potential IC also have a much older and more contentious relationship that will be repaired by the end.

#10

If you have a lot of thoughts about the beginning, middle and end of this movie, then you should take the expedient course of action and start writing.

The first draft is going to be a first draft, no matter what storyform you make.

If you have perfectionist tendencies, then you should focus them on the script and not the storyform. A storyform isn’t a thing. It’s a tool to help you reach a thing. There is no need to focus on the tool.

But also, perfectionist tendencies – I have learned the hard way – aren’t actually a trait that leads to perfect things. They’re a trait that leads to hating things and giving up on things. Do your best to put them aside.

#11

I’m afraid if I don’t solve potential plot holes now, it’ll only get worse later. There are a lot of things my MC wants-- a normal life, hope, feeling worthy, a cure for anxiety, love, to see/experience new things-- as well as being afraid of many different things. I fear that if I don’t pick the exact right need or problem to laser focus on, then the story might get off track and become muddled and inconsistent, but I get the nagging feeling that things will shift from the blueprint once I write. Maybe I’ve got enough to stop procrastinating.

Whatever the exact quad that problem is, I can tell you that the gist of the story is that MC will be unfulfilled with life until he stops avoiding things and faces his fears.

#12

A couple of thoughts:
I don’t think that Dramatica deals with plot. Obviously, there are some overlaps – a plot moves through the Signposts obviously. But even this doesn’t have to be one-to-one; an entire quarter of a throughline can be about Obtaining without necessarily having something so obvious as a single plot moment where a character wins a trophy, or loses all of the ghosts they’ve captured (Ghostbusters). I think that Dramatica deals with story completeness and robustness. So, even if you know that a person has a Symptom of Ability doesn’t mean that you’re going to be able to smoothly connect one sequence where the character complains about their inability to play chess to the next sequence where they find themselves unable to cook chicken.

Bottom line: you are correct – you will shift from the blueprint. This is why you shouldn’t sweat it right now. I wrote an entire movie script with an MC in Psychology, only to read the draft a week later and realize that I had the character in Activity. Not only that, it fit a storyform. My unconscious brain was better at putting it on the page than my conscious, I’ve-got-a-storyform brain.

If you know the gist and have enough ideas, write a 40 page, 80 page, 140 page, 300 page draft. Guaranteed that when you get to the end, you will have naturally gotten excited about what the right problem is. You can’t force yourself to pick it, but you can do the draft and see what actually gets you excited. What you naturally trend trend to will be much more interesting and fun to write than something you decide to write.

Second thought: what is it that you want out of the first draft? If you want something you can show to a friend and get them to say, “Wow, great!” then I think you need to reconsider. If it’s more like “I hope I get one page that will inform my second draft” then you are going to be on a much more comfortable and realistic path.