Domain, Outcome and Judgement

questions
#1

Question 1: An attack on a village by their neighbours is the inciting incident, causing the OS-people to hate their neighbours, and not allowing any neighbours in the village for years to come. In which domain belongs such a story? One thing that I do know is that my MC is a be-er, so that would mean that the OS would be Situation or Activity.

Question 2: Outcome and Judgement
Because of the attack and all that will happen in the story personal to the MC, the MC at the end of the story is giving up her life in the village to become happy at the neigbours for her personal reasons, which none in the OS-people understands, as the OS-people don’t allow neighbours in any more. The OS-story succeeds in this, and the MC is choosing, in the end, to join the neighbours to become happy, what kind of Outcome and Judgment is this then?

Succes/Good
Succes/Bad
Failure/Good
Failure/Bad

Everything is back in balance, OS people happy, MC is forced to move, in the village where she was happy but going to pursue happiness at the neighbours. This seems Succes/Good, but it doesn’t feel that way.

Question 3: Is Outcome seen from the OS or the MC?
Question 4: Is Judgement seen from the OS or the MC?

By the analysis of Eastern Promises, and if I understand Chris correctly, he seems to say around 1:33:00 that in his view it’s about the MC and not the OS

#2

Hi,

  1. For me the OS is in Situation because everybody is stuck in the inequity created by the inciting incident “for years to come”.
    2 & 3 ) What is the story goal (99% of the case in western culture, it is the OS concern) ? Success means the story goal has been achieved.
    4 ) I think the Judgement is from the MC perspective, is he in a better place at the end of the story than at the beginning ?
#3

There are two places to find information. On the lines or between the lines. The story itself provides the lines. The premise is what you get when you read between the lines. What that means is that what happens in the story itself can be in service of any premise, any throughline.

For example, if I say “I want to write a story about the moon slamming into the earth and killing everyone, what OS throughline is that?”, you might expect someone to say “that’s obviously a Physics throughline”. But what if I say I want to write a story that says “Keep being a dysfunctional group and everyone pays the price”? Sounds like Psychology now, right? But it’s the same story. When some incident puts the moon on a crash course with earth, the countries of the world all argue over ideas and refuse to share resources and start wars with each other instead of coming together as one to put the moon back into orbit, they all keep fighting and arguing until everyone pays the price and suffers the moon slamming into the earth.

So no one can really say what domain your story is in until they know what it is you want to say with that story.

Not necessarily. An MC be-er in a start story would put the OS in Physics or Universe. An MC be-er in a stop story would not.

#4

Why do you say it doesn’t feel that way? Keep in mind there are stories like Braveheart in which the MC makes immense sacrifices that end up Success/Good. There are also stories where the author message seems to be Success/Good but the audience may feel unsettled (I think Rosemary’s Baby might be an example of this).

The emotional state of the MC often/usually serves as a proxy to convey the Judgement to the audience. But I think this can occasionally be misleading – the MC may, for example, end the story appearing very satisfied, but the audience is still left with the feeling that all is not well, even if the Goal was achieved.

#5

nicodu wrote:

4 ) I think the Judgement is from the MC perspective, is he in a better place at the end of the story than at the beginning ?

I will have to look at the Dramatica theory book again.

Greg wrote:

Not necessarily. An MC be-er in a start story would put the OS in Physics or Universe. An MC be-er in a stop story would not.

Your right. Something learned today.

Lakis wrote:

Why do you say it doesn’t feel that way? Keep in mind there are stories like Braveheart in which the MC makes immense sacrifices that end up Success/Good.

It’s a feeling. My MC get’s kicked out of her village after living for 15 years in this village, where she worked very hard to stay there but fails. That doesn’t feels like a success for her but a failure. But the OS is happy they succeed in this. She wanted to keep on living there but decides finally to move away as it becomes unbarelble. The village is very important for her but not the most important.

So if Outcome is related to OS it should be Success. If it’s related to MC as Chris seems to suggest, then it should be Failure

And if Judgement is MC then Good is correct, as the most important thing in her life is saved/good instead of living in the village

Lakis wrote:

There are also stories where the author message seems to be Success/Good but the audience may feel unsettled (I think Rosemary’s Baby might be an example of this).

I will have to see those again.

#6

It’s not related to the OS per se – it’s the Judgement of the entire Storymind (my understanding anyway). The easiest way to see this (usually) is the emotional state of the MC at the end of the story.

That sounds like Success/Bad then. I think the most important thing is if you see the Judgement as Bad (this is message you want to convey) then it probably is.

1 Like
#7

Seconding what Lakis is saying about your intent.

What domain something is in or what the outcome and judgment are is only dependent on what you want to write about.

Dramatica is a mirror for your thought process. You tell Dramatica, I want to write a story like this and it will tell you what you need to accomplish that.

If you aren’t sure what a particular storypoint is, you’re probably still in an exploratory stage with your idea. It might be more productive to keep exploring your idea and find out what you want the story to be at this stage.

You’re the author, you get to decide.

2 Likes
#8

Some practical advice that works for me:

With when assigning Domains and Throughlines, never look at them separately. Try to do all four at once and find an arrangement that clicks for your.

With endings, think about the feeling the story evokes in you. Does it make you feel

  • Triumphant
  • Optimistic / Hopeful
  • Pessimitic
  • Hopeless

Optimistic or Hopeful is Failure / Good. Pessimistic is Success / Bad.

#9

Theoretically, Story Judgment speaks of the whole experience. Was it a Good or Bad experience?

Practically speaking, you see it played out in the Main Character.

But @glennbecker is right, the answer is what you want it to be.

1 Like