Ending v. Unending, Closure v. Denial?

questions
#1

Okay, I’m a fairly new Dramatica user, and though I think I’ve come a long way since I started there are still lots of things I don’t understand. @jhull has kindly said that I’m welcome to ask about them, so I will, but I’ll try to keep them separate (and not coming too fast and furious).

So I’ll start with Ending/Unending and Closure/Denial. My question is: What’s the difference between them? Reading the Dramatica Dictionary definitions I’m having real trouble figuring it out. Closure/Denial is pretty clear to me–accepting that something is over v. refusing to accept that it’s over–but reading the Dramatica Dictionary definitions, I can’t for the life of me tell how Ending/Unending is any different.

Thoughts? Examples would be helpful–not necessarily from films, but just examples of a situation in which the conflict is between one pair and a situation in which the conflict is between the other pair.

Thanks in advance, guys and gals. I may have a lot of these…

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#2

If you’re not already aware, it’s extremely useful to use the filter on the dramatic website. This will allow you to put in ending/unending and filter results to see examples per the setting. Ending is simply coming to a conclusion. Unending is where something continues without ending. Depending on the context, problem and solution for example, you’re bound to get different examples. An unending war between two tribes for centuries could be a problem to their existence, whereas ending it would be the solution. A draught could be the problem for a community whereas tapping into an unending (replenished) supply of water could be the solution.

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#3

No worries. Ask away!

The easiest answer is this: they are at different levels in the model which means they’ll be used differently in a story. Ending/Unending are at the character level and thus will be seen as either the source of Problems, their Solution or their Symptom and Response. Closure/Denial are at the thematic level which means they’ll be seen as Issues – value judgments on the problems themselves.

If you’ll look at the Dramatica Story Table of Elements you’ll see that Knowledge, Ability, Desire and Thought show up at each and every level. They’re at the Character Level (bottom), Issue level (next up), Plot level (seen in Memory, Conscious, Preconscious and Subconscious) and the very top Genre level (Situation, Fixed Attitude, Physics and Psychology). This reflects the nature of the model and the idea that you’re looking at the same thing only at a different resolution (or using a different lens).

All that to say you might want to look at this conflict from a thematic perspective (over a range of different scenes) or you may be interested in actually making this conflict the absolute pinpoint source of all the problems. Up to you how you want to explore it.

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#4

Both very helpful answers–I really appreciate it. On to the next one…

#5

Cool answer, Jim! Discussing and referencing the different levels gives my poor befuddled brain guidance ropes out of a morass of confusion. (Hey, it is a writer’s software program.)

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#6

hey derfner thanks for asking your question. i feel that i am exactly where you are with my education on dramatica so these kind of topics help a lot of people i’m sure. also, i too was just trying to find the difference of these ending and unending today as well.

my OS throughline has a problem of ending so i’m illustrating it in a way that all of the characters in my story are rushing to end things or bring about an end to things that they find problematic, but that is the problem and the solution is unending and i take that to mean that they must understand that their issues are innate to human behavior and unfortunately have no ending, there will never be an ending to certain things… such as violence or war.

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#8

Have you looked at the story examples in the Dramatica software program, as you create a storyform? Some choices have story examples. I wouldn’t have time to look for a few days, so I thought to mention it to you, if you want to do so before then.