Kind of story, story of a kind

writing
#1

Maybe I have to much time, but I was thinking about similarities in different stories and started to look for some standards. As Dramatica ‘not-an-expert’ I like to look for shortcuts to learn and possibly find answers.
For example here are some interesting considerations on genre in relation to dramatica domains:
Grid of Dramatica Genres.

Years ago I saw an article combining outcome and judgment.
Success - Good - happy end.
Success - Bad - personal drama.
Failure - Bad - drama.
Failure - Good - personal triumph.

Even if it’s just a general guideline seems to fit to a lot of stories.
And then I tried to make another step and add resolve to this equation. What kind of story fits good?

  1. Change - Success - Good - sounds like ‘learned the lesson’ story. The goal is right, the way is wrong. Thank you master Kenobi.
    If you check Dramatica Analysis page, a lot of western stories fits. After all producers love change stories and audience prefers happy endings.

  2. Change - Success - Bad - maybe good intentions lead to bad things? It is you, Michael Corleone. You are now ‘family’. There is also Lawrence of Arabia, and surprisingly (at least for me) The Dark Knight. No, on a second thought I’m not so surprised. I just need to see it once again.

  3. Change - Failure - Bad - maybe ‘you trusted the wrong guy/idea’? It was hard but finally I think ‘the dark side has you’ fits. Something like I try to oppose bad guys but finally I think Putin or Hitler are nice guys. Dramatica analysis adds something - The Conversation, Ex Machina. On a second though it may be also a story that starts on the wrong side with a moment of awakening but finally the hero loses. In the first case hero feels good, in the second one feels bad but in both cases audience feels ‘the dark side has him’.

  4. Change - Failure - Good - another ‘lesson learned’ story but this time ‘I was wrong’. In comparison to success story MC travels in wrong direction. Success stories are more like joining the right side. Failure stories are more like leaving the wrong side. Replicants are not like and other machine. In addition Rain Man, The Color of Money, L.A. Confidential, Constant Gardner. A lot of good stories. I don’t wan to be like this any longer. I don’t want to be like they want me to be any longer.

  5. Steadfast - Success - Good - I see blood here:) Dirty Harry, Dead wish, Legally blond, Winter’s bone. Again a lot of stories. ‘Against all odds’, ‘I know I’m right’, ‘There is no other way’. A lot of lines may fit here.

  6. Steadfast - Success - Bad - seems like something interesting next to the highway. I would start with ‘be afraid what you wish for’. Fits a little bit to Chinatown. But Dramatica analysis prompts The Silence of The Lambs and it adds ‘nothing can save you’ or something similar.

  7. Steadfast - Failure - Bad - what a drama. You are so wrong? But with Brockeback Mountain and Moulin Rouge on the list ‘you cant fight this world’ or ‘hope is not enough to succeed’?

  8. Steadfast - Failure - Good - at least some hope at the end. Lesson learned again but this time in the final confrontation. The Devil Wears Prada is ok. Dreams are not as colorful when it comes to real. Surprise for me is Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. I have to see it once again to find the line.

If you have some thoughts on it or have other lines that fit some of storypoints, feel invited to share here.

#2

I think there’s already language for this? It’s Actual vs. Apparent, and Work vs. Dilemma, IIRC.

Actual Work → Steadfast/Success
Actual Dilemma → Change/Success
Apparent Work → Steadfast/Failure
Apparent Dilemma → Change/Failure

I guess you could modify it a little bit to add Good/Bad to it? But traditionally Good/Bad get paired with Stop/Start. If it’s Good to Stop or Bad to Start, then the thing in question is Negative. If it’s Bad to Stop or Good to Start, then the thing in question is Positive.

So I wonder if half of the stories in each of your categories are Positive-feeling and half are Negative-feeling.

#3

Thank you.
I’ve been thinking a lot about Growth storypoint. For some reason it was hard for me to understand it in the right way. Finally, I guess, I succeed.
Interestingly, I also feel there is some space for Good/Bad story point, but it may be just a logical consequence of other storypoints. There is a Judgement storypoint but in my mind MC Judgement and audience judgement are not always the same. MC can be satisfied with the ending and audience may have bitter feelings. Maybe Michael Corleone could be an example.
And one thing that reminds me shortcut is not always a best way:
" APPARENT DILEMMA = CHANGE + FAILURE When a Main Character changes and the Overall Story Outcome is a failure, the audience believes that it only seemed like the Main Character should change, when in reality he shouldn’t have."
I feel like Blade Runner does not fit.

#4

Hmm. Blade Runner is a Start-Good story, which means it has a Positive feel. All that means is that Liberty is a benefit, so Deckard needs to free himself from the strictures of his mission. So that, I suppose, is the tension in the story. Deckard can only achieve Liberty by divesting himself from his mission, leading to Failure to execute the last replicant. But that’s actually a Good thing for him to do, since it means getting to live on with Rachel, at least for a little bit.

I guess the Apparent Dilemma in this situation is: “If Deckard can’t beat the replicants by following the rules, should he break the rules to succeed? Oh, no, actually breaking the rules means he no longer cares if the replicants die.”