MC = Protagonist and the sound in our heads

questions
#1

Is it possible to say that the MC and the Protagonist, if they were represented by the same player, that the main character is the one who Judges himself while pursuing their goals in one’s life as we do with ourselves?

The example of a father/mother/commander/a better soldier who pursues the goal of the story but at the same time judges the course of the events of the whole story and tries to solve his personal problem, or he may be coerced into pursuit (Protagonist), who wears a mask hiding his true personality (MC) who judges himself and his pursuit and what is to be pursuit (OS Goal) or is this a cliched idea about the voices of one’s head (what i am not referring at in anyway) ?!

so from that POV what the (MC) going to end up doing will affect his role as (protagonist) being able to achieve or unable to achieve the story goal, he might fix his personal problem (change) to be a (protagonist) who may or may not do the right thing.

Of course, I am not experienced with dramatica, but in a conditions of placing my feet on fixed ground.

I had previous questions regarding PRCO KADT and no one answered me, either my question is not worthy of an answer, or I have asked in a (No No manner) and this is unintentionally due to the cultural difference, or the issue is difficult and is answered Only by the experts who are busy for any reason.

so if it’s the cause of bad manners, I hope that the cultural difference is considered and that someone alerts me to that so that I can take care of it.

#2

I apologize, but I will try to expand the concept in my head and not be afraid of lack of clarity in its presentation as a question, because it is a complex idea in my head and it is not easy for me to present it, since i was treating the characteristic of (MC) the same as that Inner intellect property in our head, judging ourselves.

Because in this way, it can be seen that it happens to us, or at least it should happen to us, one of which can be (the main character) and (the Protagonist). (I)MC am (them)OS. These dualities are what is based on the concept of (Man) considering the existence of (Other) (philosophical\Psychological) if it were not for my existence (I) they would not exist (they), and for the existence of (they) there is (I). I know my word are messed up, but it can’t be ignored that it is a messed up idea already.

Society in reality/(OS) story-line is about Obtaining\money “for example” Here I am the money-seeking leader, moving everything alone, here I am a big mafia, corrupt but friendly economist, Or might be a poor drug dealer\Naive employee here I am in pursuit of money. But I, as a human being, have to take advantage of this mighty mental property and step back and see myself as part of (them), part of the characters of the whole story, what the hell are (they) doing? and say my opinion of myself out there as that maniac who pursues the goal of the tribe.

I know that objectivity is tough - more on personal going not just writing - but it’s the power of the mind, that somewhere inside the body/player can be neutral, for god’s sake, unbiased, trying as hard to put down his destroying sexual desire, the obsess with fame, vanity, me, me, me thing going around in his guts, or else he\I will eat psychological dirt, to face all that (external\internal) shit, and try to solve his own personal problem rather than achieving the goal he’s striving for (outside of his head) with (them) as a part of their holy (whole), not as an experimental out of body experience using Shrooms or DMT, but as a mental force to get out one’s head.

Is it possible to consider the main character in its relationship with the protagonist in the same player in this way?

#3

Hi @Mohamed.Ali
I don’t think you’ve committed any No no’s or had any bad manners either in this or your last question. Personally, though I used to be very active on this board, I now try to keep my activity here to a minimum. And while you’ll see a lot of old discussions on this board, I think the majority of the activity has been moved to discord, so you won’t see answers as often or as fast as you used to see here.

Frankly, the reason I didn’t respond to the last question (and almost did not respond to this one) is that I am not sure what exactly is being asked. But this part here…

…sounds like you’re asking about the story Judgment. It’s been said that a Main Character is typically the player within the story that represents the Story Judgment. That is, if the MC feels bad about the outcome of the story or about the efforts to address the problem, then the story is saying that the Judgment is bad. But I do not think it is a requirement that the MC be the one that does this. It’s your story and it can be presented to the audience however you choose.

This may well be in the case in any number of stories. But again, it is not necessary. A protagonist who is trying to capture a killer, for instance, may in his MC throughline grow to admire the killer and decide to let him slip away. Or it may be that a protagonist first captures a killer and then in his own MC throughline finds he has grown to admire the killer. Or it may be that the two throughlines do not appear connected by any of the storytelling.

I could reply further, but at this point, I’m not sure I really followed along with your questions, so I’m not sure if any of that was helpful.

1 Like
#4

I never think in these letters. I think of stuff I liked in movies and what those points are in the dramatica storyforming. You should have a lot of fun listening to and watching the storyforming exercises and explanations by Chris Huntley of movies throughout the years. That was the way most of us learned Dramatica points. Things in movies that grabbed us emotionally ended up being our learning stepping stones to understand the storyforming system of Dramatica.

1 Like
#5

Of course, your response was helpful, especially since my question overly expanded the presentation of the idea, which made it difficult to see the question. This is a bug in my way of thinking. I am trying to fix it, and I hope it did not cause you any inconvenience.

What I really wanted to reach and confirmed in your response is that the main character, in case being held with the protagonist in same body\player, acts as an ego or perhaps in its ideal states I think in the form of a super ego if he changed, or maybe in both ways is like he ego and get influenced by the obstacle character, Or in all cases, the main character is like a person’s judgement over himself in the case of being with the protagonist in the same player.

#6

This is very interesting as a result, because I don’t want to be a mechanic but I also don’t want to miss Dramatica because the more I go into her idea, the closer i and her get to my mind, it doesn’t disagree with me even if it takes me away from what I think it is clear and true and I built a conviction on it.

By the way, the first thing I read, analyzed and based my writing on was save the cat, but without needing to explain, I wanted more, so I read Dramatica directly without something in between that two different worlds, and then I read the anatomy of the story and imbibed the 22 steps, designing principle, theme, and world building, but that did not stop me from being completely attracted to Dramatica.

After such a long introduction, I thank you for your response and I hope to be certain of one last thing so that I can write my story in peace. Is the correct use of Dramatica means the following:

  • Build characters.

  • Choose the storyform points.

  • Creating story points and characters in a world and living people. Encoding

  • Weave the story lines\points based on the PSR report that the first signpost is such and such and will be discovered through such and such.

  • Building the scenes at this distance freely by the chosen elements that are under each issue without worrying about the arrangement and identification of PRCO and KADT.

Only bearing in mind while writing that there are:
Potential - Mass / knowledge / external state / situation / universe.

Resistance - Space / ability / external process / activity.

Current - Time / desire / internal process / psychology.

Outcome - Energy / Thought / Internal state / Mind.

and their best form is this (Space\spatial) arrangement of dealing with all four elements within each Quad. So that I do not repeat actions or situations in the scenes and becomes boring, as Jim advised, as far as I have seen.

These elements and attributes are arranged chronologically either in 1234 or in the head during writing, and it is not weaving but it just happens by mind with or without intention.

Did I miss something or am I ready to go?

Again thank you for your time.

#7

And now I’m starting to watch Mr. Chris’ videos, thank you.

#8

You are definitely ready to go! And I am sure you have missed something … haha. There is so much. I noticed you used the original terms, but activity instead of physics. Just interesting. Thanks for your introduction sharing. It was a fun read. The first time I encountered Dramatica was after I purchased a Mac computer Quadra 610 in 1994 (because I could not afford a power mac). My first computer. I perused a magazine called MacMall to see what ‘software’ was all about. I flipped a page and was stunned by this picture that was a combination of four pictures that looked the same but upon study was imbued with many, many differences. I spent what seemed like 20 minutes just fascinated by all the different forms, lines, shapes, colors being a united whole but more and more distinct the more I looked at the picture. How to describe it, it was beyond me. I looked up and saw a word that said Dramatica and it was for sale to help write stories. I thought, this is supposed to help with writing?

I had studied for a year and a half with a master artist who ended up in the Wikipedia, and I had just taken a fiction writing class at a university where the professor said to the class the first thing the first day, “You cannot write real life because no one would believe it.” To me that grand artistic expression deserved the big bucks, so I sent for the software. I used it not understanding much, so I flew to Burbank for a weekend workshop, where a kind soul stopped me on the staircase during the second day’s session and gave me the theory book. That was when I first ‘read’ the complete theory. I guessed that was why I always had more of a visual mood. I saw Chris Huntley at his computer between his instructional presentations and told him how much I loved that advertising picture of the four throughlines used in the MacMall magazine, and he said “I spent a lot of time on it.” Later I saw different simplified variations of that picture, more graphic smoothness fewer details, etc. But as the years passed no one seemed to know what happened to that original. I figured it was just misplaced in a file folder somewhere.

1 Like
#9

In context of the story, a player that represents both MC perspective and the set of protagonist elements within the OS is just a player that sometimes represents one, sometime the other. The only connection for the actually player is that they are the ones taking on both roles, and the storytelling for how they take on both roles is up to you, the author.

Within the context of the storyform, the MC and the set of protagonist elements within the OS are just two different perspectives within the same mind. The MC is the mind looking at itself as being within the world of the problem it’s dealing with. The OS (and the elements within) is the mind taking an outside, disconnected God’s-eye-view of the problem as though the mind is on the outside looking in. I don’t think that one is the ego of the other, per se.

2 Likes
#10

Thank you my dear friend so much for your kind time, and i understood now more than the last time that we are dealing here with the “I” Perspective VS “they” or the God’s-eye-view,more than an internal point of view to the same player, and i am still trying to put all that points together until i can get the software to see how it will help me, because it is really hard, to gather all this knowledge and control all these wonderful points, manually without using a machine, but it is working somehow, and it is really enlightening, inspiring, and reflecting really great on my personality, self issues, problems and critical flaws. Peace be upon you, my kind Sir.

#11

Sorry for the delay in responding to your kind message, and thank you for sharing that wonderful story, of course I missed a lot but I try not to be obsessed with this theory at the same time not to leave out the basics, and I watched Mr. Chris, and WOW, this man is really humble and a genius, I’ve wished if i was one of those present, or been able to discuss such minds, of course it would greatly increase my experience as a writer and open up new ways of thought for me, but here I am, in the land of camels, pyramids and the small lake under the palm, trying to master dramatica leviathan, but I believe with the help of you, and those kind minds and hearts that love literature, I think I’ll make progress one day.

Note: This work for which I am learning dramatica for, I finished two years ago, and since I am in a medium of publishers and writers in my country, many writers have liked the work, but I am determined with regard to this particular work to jump as high as I can to control it, and one of the reasons for my great happiness is that The work does not contradict with dramatica until this moment in anything at all, on the contrary, it increases the luster and solidity of the work.

1 Like