Multiple POV, IC as OS Protagonist, MC as OS Antagonist

[Lakis]

@didomachiatto

The “I, you, we, they” makes no sense to me. A foreign language, an alien language.

Others had good responses on this, but as with most things Dramatica I think the best way is to watch/read lots of examples to get an intuitive sense of how it works. After a while it starts to be come more obvious.

@didomachiatto

Maybe an example is somewhere. It’s the pat answer to any question about what’s the difference. But I don’t get it. I need to see it, or a chart of what it means.

I agree! Maybe this would be a good thread to start here sometime – we could take a few illustrations with gists (from Subtext maybe, or just Dramatica) and practice illustrating them as different throughlines. Like, what are some examples to make this illustration feel more like IC than MC? I know this would be beneficial for me.

@Greg

Not addressing the idea of the IC being the MC of a subplot here, but the idea of the IC appearing to be a 2nd MC to the audience, as in the IC has POV scenes that make them indistinguishable from the MC because the audiences knows just as much about them as the actual MC. This is, I’m sure, more than okay to do.

As an example, consider Shawshank Redemption. Ask most people and they’ll tell you that Andy Dufresne is the MC because we see so deeply into his character.

I agree, though I think this is a tricky example because (if I remember correctly) the Shawshank story is told in the first person with Red as the narrator. Also isn’t there voiceover in the movie? This all serves to subconsciously convey the idea that Red is the MC even if Andy is the Protagonist.

A better example that pops to mind for me is the novel Lexicon which is told almost 50/50 through two separate points of view (with a just a couple of other switches). I mentioned it in a previous thread, and we couldn’t get consensus on which character was main and which IC. (In retrospect it feels like one storyform to me, and Emily is the MC).

@Greg

As far as the influence goes, you can show this, or you can just treat the IC as though writing another MC and trust the storyform.

I would have agreed with this in the past, but now I’m not sure. The point of the storyform is that the IC isn’t the same as the MC. And as either the IC or MC can be change/steadfast characters, you can’t even use that as a guide–how do you tell the difference between an IC who influences a Steadfast MC and vice-versa without some idea of “influence” in your mind?

I should emphasize that I’m talking very specifically about the subjective process of writing, using Dramatica. I have no doubt that writers get to complete stories all manner of ways, and may not even consciously know who their own MC and IC are.

@Greg

seeking the treasure’ as an RS Concern should look more like becoming friends or enemies over attempts to find the treasure

I think he would say that example still looks more like OS than than RS, though I should probably let @jhull speak for himself on that.

In the writer’s room example, particular case, he was describing Obtaining more as a matter of control – the relationship has control issues, but also the Goal of the relationship is something about getting together or breaking up. (Writing this, I realize I need to re-listen). Anyway, it was a revelation to me, because up until now I’ve been illustrating my RS idea more the way you describe.