Short Story Participation - Rules and expectations discussion thread

workshop
#1

Okies.

Since this is our inaugural go at this. I’m going to give a reference to
Piper
And Jim’s article on same short

You may use the quads in any order. You may use any of the Story points. It would be wonderful if in addition to your short story you could give a little run down on what Dramatica decisions you made before writing.

Word count…this is a little harder to call…for one I know we’ll all want to read each others stories and if they’re too long that won’t happen…for two, I’d like us to be able to give each other feedback. I think the point of this is for us all to get more facility with Dramatica, not just showoff our writing chops. So…this first time out were. going to try 1500 words. One week to get it in and one week to give feed back. So no more than a short story 2x a month (I might bend this a little so we get on a 1st and 15th type schedule (Note to self: play this by ear). And it could be, depending on how it goes. 1 a month. We’ll see.

@jhull is there any chance we can have our own category for this? Maybe? Pretty please?

Language, this is an open forum, therefore let’s keep it pg-13 please.

I want to give as much leeway as possible, but I also really like the idea of doing some focused things — like scenes, rather than full stories that use a specific story point (forewarning, ua, cf, etc.) I’m volunteering to be facilitator, but I don’t want to feel like this is solely my balliwick. So if we want to changes facilitator each time, I’m down with that.

I think we should give a week for discussion of anything else y’all think is relevant. Should I post the first quad next Thursday, April 19th, or would you rather start on Sunday the 15th?

No prizes, just good fun, and a more active writing community.

Whatcha’all think?

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#2

I’m ok with scene work as well. I’d like a tight ruleset that would allow us to see the different ways that individual writers can twist the rules without breaking them. Creativity is conquering the form, not throwing it out. The tighter the focus (i.e. Y’all gotta use this quad), the better for me. This is going to be fun.

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#3

I’m wondering whether we need more rules than just language, like content? I’m not sure what, maybe there’s some generic list we could find that would apply.

Also wondering whether you could break the rules with a warning, and posting a link to your story (on your personal blog or whatever) instead of posting it here.

Also, does it need to be mentioned somewhere that stories are being posted on the forum for feedback, not as publication (in case you wanted to submit the story somewhere else after)?

#4

I like it. I’d prefer to keep rules to a minimum beyond whatever is specifically called for within the exercise. Something like, “show us a scene using a variation level quad”. Or “write with a Physics throughline, Problem of Inequity” or whatever. Especially until we see how much participation there is.

@mlucas, I’ll follow a link to your blog to read your entries.

#5

In case I wasn’t clear, I meant content restrictions like “no graphic depiction of sexual acts” and “no child sexual exploitation”. Especially since this is a public forum.

I agree the Dramatica rules for the exercise can be kept simple.

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#6

Well, child porn is illegal, so, do we even need that rule? We’d call the police, or at least I would. However, I object to the no graphical depiction of sexual acts. I have no interest in being a policeman for someone’s writing, and goes against my core beliefs of freedom of expression. I don’t THINK I’ll write about explicit sex, but who knows? My inner Henry Miller might come out and it might be swinging dks all over the place. Writing is not the same thing as a ‘safe space’ corporate office environment, and if you want it to be, friends, you and I are not on the same page. I want dangerous writing that wakes people up. Wakes them the f up, if you will. (And by the way, profanity? The way a lot of people actually talk? Are we going to erase that too?)

This is what I call an ‘oh my god things might get out of control’ rule. But given this crowd that I’ve seen so far, I doubt it. And by the way - if you find something you don’t like in a story, you can turn the page. Or scroll down. Or click on another link.

That’s all I have to say about it. I’ll roll with the crowd, but thought I might as well be honest about my druthers.

A LITTLE LATER my mind could be changed about this. Thinking about it, this is more a theory space than a real creative writing space. The stories here are probably going to be oriented towards illustrating Dramatica story points and quads and such. If that’s the case, then writing about sex would probably distract from the points about using the theory that the writer is trying to make. So I THINK I withdraw my objections. I think.

LATER STILL in the spirit of the FAQ I censored my free wheeling post :wink:

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#7

Everybody go to the FAQ section and read the guidelines. Stick to that and all should be good.

#8

Great suggestion, could you link to the FAQ? I am ashamed to say I can’t find it after searching for it.

#9

Awesome, Greg! That’s just what we needed.

@GetSchwifty the link is here (I included an anchor tag the most relevant section): http://discuss.dramatica.com/faq#be-civil

Also, I do agree with you about not wanting to limit your creativity – I almost never swear but some of my characters do, a lot. That’s why I was thinking it might be acceptable to post your story elsewhere, a put a link with a warning in the forum here.

(Note by child sexual exploitation I meant a story that dealt with human sex trafficking or whatever. A perfectly legitimate story but some people may want a warning before reading that.)

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#10

I like the idea of a link. That is an excellent suggestion. The FAQ makes sense given the context, although links to ‘other sites’ is a peculiar fiction we play. The web is One Place and you’re one click away from both the glorious and the unspeakably vile.

I’m the opposite. I curse like a sailor, but my characters rarely do, probably because I am so tired of it coming from my own mouth (I’ve tried to stop) that having my characters speak cleanly is a relief.

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#11

Welcome to the Dramatica Workshop category! Enjoy…

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#12

I say toss something out now while you have people interested. See how long it takes to pick up steam and adjust from there.

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#13

Your wish is my command. I will post the first quad at midnight Pacific time.

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#14

If it can be made to be not an open forum, then we can take our stories and try to get them published.
Can we make it so that only members of this forum can see these stories?

#15

I guess the first question is, @jhull does the forum software have the ability to lock the workshop, only giving access to those that have asked to participate? Ugh! I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, it’d be nice for people to be able to shop their work, on the other, I feel like locking it away will reduce the insight that we might gain by having it open to the entire community.

I think it’s wise to keep in mind the purpose - for me it’s learning and practicing with y’all as coaches and cheerleaders. Selling something that I developed here would be secondary, even tertiary.

What do others think?

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#16

I believe we can make it open to the community, just not open to everyone on the Internet. If you’ve got an account on this forum, then request access to the competition space as a reader. I don’t believe that will harm a story writer’s ability to get published.

#17

I agree. I’m really only interested in this in as much as I can see how everyone is applying Dramatica. I’m not looking to be blown away by a story. I think looking at publication of a forum exercise is maybe looking a little too far ahead for now, but if you come up with something you think can be published, put getting it published ahead of sharing it on here.

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#18

Actually, I think both concerns could be addressed if we were able to restrict the workshop area to just those people who have Discuss accounts. That would make it “private” (not open to the public), so posting there for feedback would not be considered using up your first (electronic) publishing rights.

At least that’s what I got from this article:

Is my work considered previously published if I post it in a writing forum or Web board?

If the forum or Web board is private and intended for the purposes of encouraging feedback or community support, then most editors and literary agents will consider the work unpublished. But just in case, you may want to take it down once you’ve received feedback so it doesn’t appear online.

If the forum in question is public (that is, if nonmembers can see what you’ve written), then your work will likely be considered previously published.

Meanwhile, anyone with a Discuss account could read and offer feedback; and if someone wants access, they just create an account. So the goal of learning and sharing would still be met IMO. (assuming it’s possible for Jim to do this)

EDIT: that said, I personally wouldn’t worry about it too much because even if you write something you’re really proud of, you can still self-publish it or use it as free giveaway content on your blog or whatever, so it still has value.

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#19

Yes, you can totally create private sections here–

–but I would think that completely defeats the purpose of this idea.

I’ve worked with professionals and amateurs alike–the one striking difference: only amateurs care about Non-Disclosure Agreements or keeping their stories private. Professionals know it’s them–not their precious ideas–that sell.

I love this:

Because it fit in with the whole idea of the Dramatica community here. I would say if you want to keep it private, you could find other means and just link to it from here.

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#20

Couldn’t agree more.