What makes a scene?

questions
#1

And is it different between performance (screen/play) and text (Novel/shortstory)?

So here’s my dilemma. I was reading Armando Saldaña-Mora’s Dramatica for Screenwriters and he lists these four criteria in order for something to be a scene. An event –

It’s irreversible.
It changes the characters’ circumstances.
It gives the characters new and more important purposes.
It’s meaningful to the characters (and, therefore, to the audience).

Mora, Armando Saldaña (2009-11-19). Dramatica for Screenwriters (Kindle Locations 1552-1553). Write Brothers Press. Kindle Edition.

I know there are instances in books where I would definitely say something was a scene, but it is centered on relationship and or character building and doesn’t meet the 3rd criteria (give the characters a new and important purpose). They occur in film as well. Say this scene from Lethal Weapon where Riggs contemplates suicide. OR the library scene in Ever After 2:32-4:28.

Does anyone else of thoughts on this? On what makes a scene?

#2

I know what you mean and I think we could be able to find scenes that most definitely do not meet each of Armando’s ideas but I ask myself would the scene be better if it did? And I think 9 times out of 10 the answer is yes. And if I happen to write a scene that doesn’t meet all four but maybe 2 because 1.) It’s irreversible and 2.) changes the characters circumstance then I will try and fit in 3 and 4 later as a payoff.

I agree with Armando on his ideas but I also think as we are writing we can start to find our own ideas on the importance of why I am writing this particular scene and what critical function it has in my narrative.

Also I think Gibson’s character realizing he is unable to end his life IS giving him a new purpose (on life).

#3

I would say as long as it exposes some appreciation from the storyform then it qualifies as a scene. Anything else is just extra.

I’ve read a lot of scenes that satisfy Armando’s four requirements yet don’t have anything to do with the actual storyform. They always come off as wasted time because you could just as easily cut them and no one would even notice (except the writer of course!)

#4

Interesting thought @jhull. But doesn’t that mean one can only make the distinction in analysis?

#5

If you have the storyform already figured, not necessarily. In fact I find it better to have a storyform all set so you have markers to hit, things to say. Makes every scene purposeful.

#6

I didn’t mean as a storyteller but as an audience. If I read or see a scene, I can’t know if it’s in the storyform or not. But I’d still like away to know if it’s a scene…

#7

In a recent episode of (a show*) there was what I will call a “false beat” – there is a set-up of a relationship conflict that then results in a scene where we know someone is being taken to their own murder. So we really pay attention to what we are seeing. But, when the character goes to his death, it’s not at all what happens – a different surprise is waiting for us.

Is this a scene? Sure, we see the character get a new purpose, irreversibly, and meaningfully.
But the lead-up probably doesn’t really hit any particular appreciation in the storyform, not in a relevant way, at any rate.

My point is this: there are situations where an ideal storyform is best put aside for a good, in-the-moment solution to get to the more important, more relevant beat.

What they did served a storyweaving function. And sometimes, that is okay, even if it takes a step outside of the storyform.

*No spoilers

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