Why is there a possibility that "Order", "Support" and "Help" can be a problem?

Dramatica Theory
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Hi,

In the theory, we have Concern, Issue then Problem. In the problem, there are choices for “Order”, “Support” and “Help”. I am confused as to why can they be problem. Having an order is a good thing. Someone supporting you is a good thing. Someone helping you is a good thing.

I’m just confused as to why this is so. I was thinking maybe “Order” is perceived as “Lack of Order” when viewed as a problem but there is already a “Chaos”,

I would really appreciate your input.

Thank you for your time.

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Here are some examples that might help (without resorting to using “lack of”, though that can certainly work too!).

Support
Supporting child pornography
Supporting your husband’s choice to quit his job and go into acting (even when he sucks)

Help
The overprotective parent who’s always helping their kid through the playground obstacles. “Let me do it myself!”
Answering a distress call which is really an enemy trick to draw you out

Order
Taking time to organize your closet perfectly after getting dressed – which makes you late for your interview
Structuring your database design to the Nth degree which makes it almost impossible to work with

EDIT: although the above examples make it easy to see how the element could be made problematic, anything can be made into a problem. For example, “supporting world peace” could be a problem if a character is so obsessed with that he neglects his family, etc.

Also keep in mind you have to actually make each item a problem. “Supporting child pornography” sounds awful but it’s not really a problem until you make it a problem for the character (hiding things from people causes angst or trouble at home/work, etc., and now I need to stop using that example now because it’s making me sick to the stomach).

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All the Elements have positive and negative values, and as the author you select which ‘charge’ you want the element to have.

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Thanks mlucas for the examples.
That totally cleared the confusion in me!

Thanks also for the clarification: “Also keep in mind you have to actually make each item a problem”.

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FYI there is a joke in the Dramatica community that Jim Hull (@jhull of http://NarrativeFirst.com) uses the phrase “how is that a problem?” so often that he had it tatooed onto his biceps. Hence if you ever see this icon :muscle: it’s in reference to that idea! :slight_smile:

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Sidebar: why do we allow news stations to take things people say and cut them into sound bites?

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If I want to figure out something on my own, I might want Support (someone brings me tea to fuel my studies) but the last thing I want is Help.

If I’m cramming for a test, I want your Help (“here are my notes”) but your support (“Go get 'em, tiger!”) would only frustrate me.

And the last time I escaped from jail, my cell mate was caught because he tried to hide in a mall, and they could proceed orderly through all the stores until they found him. But I went to the swamps, where the brambles and overgrowth hid me until I was able to get away.

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@mlucas

Thanks for the inside info. I like Narrative First site too. I just hope that there is a comment section in every article so we can interact with other people

@MWollaeger

Thanks for the additional examples. Helps a lot!

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This is the best place for that kind of interaction. I used to have comments but removed them several years ago.

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Have you ever heard the term “inspiration porn”? That is a pretty clear example where support becomes something destructive.

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