Black Panther Analysis

analysis
#41

I think that’s a good summary. T’Chaka’s line felt very “MC Throughline”.

I was trying to think about the Do-er/Be-er thing and ended up thinking about Killmonger’s approach (something @mlucas said stuck with me). Everything that Killmonger does seems to be prefaced by him changing himself or trying to adapt. He’s adapting himself in the museum before the big theft, playing the role of the educated scholar; he’s playing Klaue until he has no other option but to shoot him; even the burning of the heart-shaped plant is motivated by a bad response to the ancestral plane, etc. His preference (when he has the time to choose – later on, he’s pretty much forced to take action to protect himself) seems to be internal first, and then external when that first gambit fails.

But I still can’t think of a personal moment for T’Challa as Do-er (or Be-er). Possibly planting the device on Ross when he’s interviewing Klaue? But that feels too OS.

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#42

I really like this. In an earlier post I’d mentioned “trying to be a good king, trying to follow in his father’s footsteps” and that matches really well.

If his personal issues are about being a strong king, then I think any moment where he’s acting as king or defending the throne could count as part of the MC throughline (such moments may of course do double-duty with the OS). Even the fact that he pulls a Captain Kirk and leads the mission to Korea himself counts, I think, and that’s definitely a Do-er action, isn’t it?

Also, what about at the beginning when he wants to extract Nakia on his own, shirking Okoye’s help? I’m not sure if the OS had “started” at that point, so it may point to the MC throughline: “I’m about to become king, and I’m strong enough to handle this on my own.”

#43

Great insights from everyone. Love it!
Looking at it again, @decastell mentioned something that rattled my head. And in truth, he nailed the core of T’Challa’s inequity. “Will he be a great king like his father”? If we go by this, then T’Challa will be

MC:Psychology,
Concern : Being
Issue: Ability.

IC: Physics,
Concern: Doing
Issue: Skill.

RS: Mind (What they think)
Concern: The Preconscious
Issue: Confidence

OS: Universe
Concern: Progress
Issue: Security.

Seems to fit. Guys… Suggestions…

#44

Isn’t there a moment just after he sees Killmonger’s identical ring where he immediately seeks out Zuri for answers about what the hell is going on? That seems like a more personal Do-er moment, perhaps.

I’m gonna have a little think about this. The source of his problems just don’t feel internal to me, and I don’t see him as an unwilling participant in the story (and I’m almost certain this isn’t a decision story). @Khodu, do you have examples of T’Challa as a Be-er? Without getting into concerns/issues, etc.

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#45

Yeah. From the very beginning, it’s was established that he would freeze when he see’s Nakia. Meaning it’s been a struggle of his. He might have tried to tell himself to be more stable, trusting his constitution and yet, when he met her, he froze.

#46

But is that his preferred approach to solving problems? That he just freezes up? Seems to me like it just kind of happens, rather than an actual approach.

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#47

Let’s try the litmus test for domains on T’Challa’s personal issues around “being a strong king while remaining a good man”:

  • Universe: if he wasn’t the king (or the black panther), would he still have those issues? Unequivocally, no. All of his concerns revolve around the fact that he’s king of Wakanda.

  • Physics: if he wasn’t engaged in running around in a black suit, would he still have those issues? Definitely, yes. He could give up the physical stuff but he’d still have to struggle to be a strong king.
    What if he also gave up all the activities of ruling and was just a figurehead? Yes, he’d still have his personal issues because T’Challa as portrayed would still worry about how the country was being run – whether the government was both strong and moral.

  • Mind: if he didn’t hold fast to this attitude that he needs to remain a good man, would he still have those issues? This is a maybe for me – he’d still have to be a strong king, but it would be easier without that mindset.

  • Psychology: … I can’t even think of anything to remove here. You could say he was manipulated by his father, who lied about his uncle – but that manipulation doesn’t really take place in this film, it’s in the backstory. Anyway, even without that particular point, he’d still have to worry about being a strong king, so yes his personal issues would remain.
    Now, we could say “remaining a good man” is a manner of thinking, which could put Psychology into maybe territory. I don’t see much evidence of this in the film – I’d think a Psychology MC would usually be going around convincing, lying, manipulating or be shown to have psychological issues like an addiction or something. But I’ve been known to miss Psychology MCs before – notably Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone.

So where does that leave us? I definitely think the Universe argument is simpler, but the internal domains are interesting because in a lot of ways he felt like a Start character (he needed to start listening to everyone’s ideas about Wakanda and its relationship to the world), and the OS seemed pretty external…

Any thoughts on the above? If we’re really stuck on Start/Stop and Do-er/Be-er we could move on to the OS Domain…

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#48

Hold onto this – without any particular storyform in mind, I have a feeling it will come up somewhere at a lower level, like a Critical Flaw or Issue or Counterpoint.

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#49

Great breakdown Mike. Indeed his personal problems were coming from within. Lets try KTAD.

Are his problems Knowledge based? No I don’t think so.

Are his problems Thought based? Maybe. But are they based on What he knows or how he thinks?

Are his problems Ability based? No. He’s the Black panther. He’s got the power and the wealth.

Are his problems based on Desire? Most likely. He desires to be a good king. He desires to have Nakia. He desires to preserve the legacy.

So I’m still a bit convinced he has a Psychology Domain. I’m very open to correction. Indeed this is an enjoyable exercise.

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#50

That’s what was confusing me, too. I’m still not sure how I’d define his ‘Stop’ growth. It’s another one of those ‘looks like this, feels like that’ elements, like Killmonger’s approach. I’m leaning to a Universe domain for him, but I can see the argument for Mind. We’ll leave it open and figure it out when we get to the lower levels, maybe.

I’m near-certain that the OS Domain is Physics. No question that activities are causing problems everywhere: the trials to challenge the king; breaking Klaue out of the questioning place (forgot where they were); stealing the Vibranium; burning all of the heart-shaped plants; the big battle sequence at the end, etc. Feels like a lot of activities causing problems.

I could see an argument for Situation, perhaps because Wakanda is ‘hidden’ from the world. But even if it wasn’t, those problems would still be going on. You’d still have people trying to steal the Vibranium, etc. I don’t know. I’d hear an argument for that. I could be off-base with it.

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#51

If this were true then when Killmonger defeats him, T’Challa’s problems would go away. He could’ve fled with his family. But the constant internal pressure of what it means to be a good king forces him back – to risk everything to fight Killmonger even though he doesn’t want more violence.

I go back to the original question about the IC: if Killmonger is the IC, then there’s no viable way to define him as a be-er. He absolutely seeks to change the world around him, never once trying to adapt himself to the external world. He never says, “well, maybe I should learn to accept how things are,” or “well, maybe I could work within the Wakandan way of doing things.” No, at every turn he tears down the external world. He wants weapons? He steals them. He wants revenge over his father’s death? He kills Zuri. He doesn’t like the way Africans are oppressed around the world? He takes over a country and starts sending them weapons.

Contrast that with T’Challa – someone who seems almost paralyzed (as emphasized with the Nakia bit at the beginning) over what he should or shouldn’t do.

If T’Challa let go of his psychology – of his “what would a good man do? What would a strong king do?” dilemma, his personal problems would go away:

  • His friend is angry that his father never killed Klaue? He goes and kills him rather than trying to capture him to give him a trial.
  • The CIA guy gets shot. Bringing him to Wakanda puts the country’s secrets at risk? He leaves him there to die just like his father would have done.
  • Killmonger comes and wants a shot at the throne? He tells him to suck it and has him executed.

At each turn, if T’Challa simply followed his father’s actual manner of thinking rather than what he wishes was his father’s way of thinking, then his problems as king would go away.

I think this is, in fact, one of the things audiences appreciated so much about Black Panther: while he’s got all the kick-ass superhero abilities, the character himself struggles with what it means to be a ruler. His problems don’t go away until he stops trying to live up to his father’s memory and starts doing things his own way.

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#52

Nice summary, @decastell. I think at times you may be looking at too large a scale – I believe Be-ers can still seek to change the world at large by adapting themselves first. (Morpheus in The Matrix is a good example.) Nevertheless, I do find your arguments convincing. Especially killing Zuri (it’s both clearly Do-ing and impacting the MC). I’d be happy to pencil in MC Be-er for now, especially because of how it makes a Growth of Start more likely. If @jhay agrees, maybe we could move onto the OS Domain & Concern.

(In the DUG meetings, do they do Domain on its own first and then Concern? Or both together? I can’t remember.)

One question for you though Sebastien … how do you see it when T’Challa goes to extract Nakia on his own? It seems both a preferential course of action, and MC related. Is there some kind of Be-ing in that scene that I maybe missed?

#53

I’ve also been semi-convinced by @decastell, so I’m just about to go into the screen to see it again! Gonna take some notes – mostly on T’Challa and Killmonger, so I’ll be back a little later. Feel free to go ahead for OS, though, and I’ll just jump in later/tomorrow.

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#54

Wanted to jump in here.

For the OS, I’d propose that it is about Isolationism vs. Globalism, so OS would be in Mind. I had initially assumed it would be in Physics due to all the fighting and what not, but reading through the ideas of the MC being in Psychology, made me take a second look at the OS. It seems that all the conflict in the OS stems from people’s fixed attitude that Wakanda should remain isolationist vs. those who want to share its resources with the world. One other example that popped out was how Okoye defended the throne even when Killmonger was sitting on it because that’s just what the Dora Milaje are supposed to do.

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#55

Hi Mike, that’s a very interesting idea!

The reason I’m not sure about it is that for the OS to be in Mind we’d have to show a few other things.

  • a Mind-related Story Goal that everyone gets caught up in (think of Zootopia, where Bellwether’s plot was to make everyone afraid of all predators)
  • a First Driver that introduces (or unbalances) a Mind-related inequity and sets up the need for that Story Goal to resolve it
  • that the mindset(s) / attitude(s) are the true root of the problem

Showing the above for Black Panther seems a lot harder than for Zootopia!

I feel the Isolation vs. Globalism stuff is probably at the Issue and/or Problem level, similar to the conflicting opinions around how to control superheroes in Captain America: Civil War (represented by Control and Self Interest vs. Morality in that story). Note there are a lot of Variations found within the external domains in the model, that can seem internal. Attitude and Preconception are the obvious ones, but there’s also Self Interest, Morality, Openness, Choice, Wisdom, Enlightenment, Fantasy, etc.

In a way, making it the Issue level actually makes it more important thematically, since the Issue level is often the thematic stuff that everyone talks about. Domains are usually boring, simple labels to everyone but Dramatica peeps!

#56

I would go with Physics for the OS Domain. The problems stem from all the physical activities to control Wakanda, its vibranium and its technology. I can see an argument for Universe – problems stemming from the fact that Wakanda is this secretly powerful nation with advanced tech. But Obtaining is just so strong as a Concern:

  • stealing Vibranium, catching Klaue
  • winning / defending / losing / cementing the Wakandan throne
  • taking the Wakandan technology and giving it to oppressed people of African descent around the world
  • defeating Killmonger
  • catching the transport ships that are getting away
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#57

Brace yourselves for a long 'un (apologies!).

T’Challa is a Be-er. @Decastell was right. The only thing is that there’s next to no clear examples of it because the movie is mostly OS, so there’s very little of that fish-out-of-water ‘feel’ to it. In fact, there are more clear instances of Do-er for both Killmonger AND T’Challa, so I can only assume that they’ve done a Bourne Identity thing where you have the ‘Black Panther’ T’Challa in the OS Throughline (who takes up most of the story) and the ‘Son’ T’Challa in the MC Throughline. Same player, two perspectives. It also doesn’t help that for a long time, T’Challa has others to solve his problems for him (Okoye, especially, but also Nakia and Shuri step in on occasion), so we don’t get a clear look at his preferred approach too often.

However, the two moments that convinced me that they’re intended to be Do-er/Be-er:

  • When Killmonger is brought before the council. T’Challa knows of Killmonger’s Wakandan roots, but he stays silent and internalises it rather than telling the council. It’s Killmonger that proudly screams his identity.

  • When Killmonger wakes up from the Ancestral Plane, he demands the heart-shaped herb be burned. One of the women says they have to keep it for future kings, and Killmonger chokes her to get what he wants.

The instance of T’Challa extracting Nakia mid-mission is one I chalked up to Do-er, but I think that might be the OS T’Challa acting. He does it of his own volition, just to invite her to the coronation. There wasn’t any kind of be-ing that I saw, other than the very brief ‘freeze’. But, again, it feels like T’Challa is a Do-er in the OS and a Be-er with his own issues.

Okay, so that first scene with T’Chaka is an interesting one. There’s a lot I didn’t remember. T’Challa says he’s not ready to be without his father, but that he wants to be a great king, just like his father. The more personal moments in the story (such as when Nakia steps in as IC) include lines like “you get to decide what kind of king you are going to be.” So it feels to me like he’s deeply afraid of change. The death of his father and sudden coronation makes him want to be great, and the only way to be great is to be like his father – which then leads to the inevitable heartbreak.

I also have a decent argument for Killmonger in Universe: he’s an abandoned Wakandan with royal blood (and Military expertise). That’s where his influence comes from, not just to T’Challa, but to everyone: he can’t be ignored because he’s not an outsider. He’s a legitimate choice for a Wakandan ruler, and someone with the proven skills and connections to do everything he says — unlike T’Challa, whom everyone (particularly W’Kabi) notes as “more of the same”.

I think the IC perspective is basically “our people’s future relies on us burning everything down” rather than “we need to open up”. The opening up/liberating countries/helping the oppressed stuff is DEFINITELY OS. Everyone has an opinion on what they should be doing – which I think is where @mike.d’s Isolation v Globalism thing is. There’s a quad of Issues that came up constantly, and that was a really strong one.

There’s also very little RS. A couple of scenes here and there, but not a lot. There’s an exchange of dialogue before the train battle that lines up quite well with where I think the RS concern is, and that final scene between them is a great IC resolve, but the RS is really underbaked.

Also an instance of T’Challa’s change: at the beginning, he’s awkward just holding Nakia’s hand. At the end, he kisses her without a second thought. Not sure how I forgot that one. I think this is also supposed to be the Benchmark for the MC Throughline.

(A storytelling note: I still really dislike the big battle at the end with all of the drone stuff and the rhinos and the trains. The movie is so intimate and small-scale and then just turns it up to eleven out of nowhere and it’s just like… okay then. But I guess you gotta give the audience what they came for.)

As for concerns, I’m with @mlucas. The problems are consistently caused by Obtaining (or losing, in the case of the throne), and the quad of issues beneath is so, so strong:

Attitude: Tradition v Innovation (“Your technology is made by a child!”/Just about everything Okoye stands for)
Approach: Opening Up to the World vs Closing Oneself Off (Pretty much all of the council scenes are about approach, but there’s a moment where Killmonger arrives and they’re forced to defend their approach – which is essentially to not get involved in world conflicts./Also a nice little bit: “Guns. So primative.”)
Self-Interest: Protecting Wakanda’s interests vs Using the Vibranium for Power/Influence (That’s where you get everyone that’s out for the Vibranium for selfish reasons – money/power-- and the Wakandans trying to protect it as a valuable natural resource)
Morality: Looking Out for Wakandans vs Delivering Aid Around the World (Nakia best fits into this mold with her “We can bring aid around the world” and T’Challa responding with “We need to look after our own people first.”)

I think it’s here that you get all of the Mind-esque stuff, @mike.d.

Sorry about the lengthy post. I was just surprised by the sheer amount of stuff I had completely forgotten happened.

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#58

Thanks for the clarification @mlucas. I should trust my initial instincts! I agree that the OS is Physics>Obtaining. And it makes sense that the Issue would be either attitude vs. approach or self-interest vs. morality, which would tie into the isolationism vs. globalism.

#59

Could the OS not be in Situation? Wakanda is an isolated nation but that isolation is steadily coming to an end (They’re not going to be able to keep their true nature a secret for long and there are pressures without and within to share what they have). If I had to describe the one concern everyone had, it’s with “what’s going to happen to Wakanda?”

All the fights that take place aren’t so much over who’s going to rule as they are over the way things are headed for the country. In the first fight over who gets to be king, the other guy says (heavily paraphrasing) “this country’s become weak. You’ve got that Shuri girl in charge of all our vibranium. We’ve got to change direction.”

That’s why I think it’s:
OS: Situation - The Past - Wakanda is stuck in the past (it’s always been isolated but that doesn’t work any more, fighting over whether to share their technology or keep it for themselves which has always been their tradition, even the ridiculous barbarism of picking a king through who wins a fight)
MC: Manipulation - Developing a Plan - how can T’Challa be a strong king while remaining a good man?
IC: Activity - Understanding - Killmonger understands how to win power better than T’Challa (killing Klaue as a gift to gain entry into Wakanda, using the demand for trial by combat, having killed all those previous people just to get to T’Challa)
RS: Fixed Attitude - Memories - the relationship slowly comes together as they get over their differing memories (Killmonger of his father, T’Challa of his) and what those memories mean.

#60

It’s absolutely possible. But my main question would be how would you factor Everett Ross and Klaue into an Overall Story Concern of The Past?