Captain America Civil War Analysis - Main Character Question

[rocky]

Assume for a moment Cap is the MC. He's a Steadfast character, not a Change character, so that really changes how to evaluate everything else, doesn't it? Keep in mind Cap has been the Steadfast character in his previous films too.

I think Bucky might be the Influence Character, and the emotional journey is Cap's refusal to turn on his friend. That's the subjective story. Everything else is the Objective story.

Zemo is the Antagonist, because ultimately he's behind it all, and Tony is the Contagonist, used by Zemo to achieve the antagonist's ends.

[Prish]

I imagine they start with one MC at the scriptwriting and filming, then a year or two passes with tons of world events traumatizing people. The audience reception at that time might identify with a different character, more.

[Jaybird]

Well, that's actually the irony of my point. I think Captain America was supposed to be the main character, but because Tony technically got the more substantial emotional connection with the audience he ended up satisfying the criteria for the Dramatica main character better than Steve.

[Prish]

Would it make any difference to the storyform which characters are the MC and IC?

[Jaybird]

I haven't run it through the software, but exchanging main and influence characters at the very least rearranges how the main character's throughline interacts with the overall (changing from complementary to companion or vice versa) which affects whether the growth is start or stop and everything else dependent on that, I believe.

Having thought it over some more, I think there's actually -two- stories going on, the second centering on T'challa, who wants to avenge his father, and Bucky, the man who didn't do it. That ending stinger shows much more of a relationship change between them than anything else.

[Prish]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but could one be a tale and one be the storyform Story?

[Jaybird]

Well, at risk of spoilers again (sorry, should've marked the thread title), I'm pretty sure the Iron Man-Captain America conflict is the main story and the T'challa-Bucky conflict is a sub plot.

[glennbecker]

Hope I don't bother anyone jumping in and unloading a bunch of thoughts. I watched this again a few nights ago, and have been thinking it over.

I think the intent is that Cap is the Main Character, although, the line is blurred a lot in the storytelling. I'm sure they wanted to beef up Iron Man's role to give Robert Downey Jr. more to do. Plus there's a lot of “story chatter” with the Black Panther and Spider-man stuff.

I see MC as Fixed Attitude. All the problems for him personally seem to stem from his loyalty to Bucky, and his unwillingness to do what the “system” demands vs. what he feels is right.

That puts Iron Man in Situation, and I think his state as the public face of the Avengers is tearing his life to shreds. He's lost Pepper, the world is turning on the Avengers, and he's coming apart at the seams trying to hold his team together.

Relationship Story seems to be Manipulation. All the stuff with the Sokovia Accords and their differing perspectives on the Avengers role in the world drives a wedge between Cap and Iron Man. It's also where most of the meat of the movie seems to be too, as it's dramatized by having all the characters split into Team Cap and Team Iron Man. At first I thought this was the OS, but it's separate from Zemo and his plan.

This leaves Zemo, and his plan to rid the world of Super-People. The storytelling here is lightly drawn until the last half hour or so. But Zemo is acting out a plan to hunt down and destroy the remaining Winter Soldiers, and destroy the Avengers. Even though he is most like a protagonist, I think we're meant to see the dismantling of the Avengers as a bad thing, duh, which gives the movie it's downer feel.

Concerns I would put in the lower left. (Obtaining, Future, Becoming, Innermost Desires). I think Openness, Delay, Preconception, and Choice seem strong for Tony. Closure, Denial, Hope and Dream also seem strong for Captain America. Rationalization, Obligation, Commitment, and Responsibility seem strong for the RS. Finally, you have Self-Interest, Morality, Attitude and Approach for the OS.

Steadfast for Cap, Change for Iron Man? He seems to be a lot less stressed and having a new attitude by effectively giving the Secretary of State the finger at the end. I think the implication is that he's no longer interested in cooperating with the Government to hunt down his friends.

The only thing I feel weird about is Cap having a growth of Start, but I'm always kind of iffy about growth.

I'd be interested in doing a full analysis of this if anyone is interested.

[Jaybird]

This is actually really, really good, but I still object to Cap as the main character on the grounds that he reveals a secret at the end of the movie that forces a serious reinterpretation of his character which compromises his status as the audience entry-point into the story. Meanwhile, Tony's very first scene establishes that he has issues that become such a huge factor later on.

Analysis sounds great.

[glennbecker]

Putting Tony as the MC gives him a growth of Stop, chip on the shoulder, which seems like a good fit.

Something just nags me about Iron Man being the MC in a Captain America movie, but you make some really strong points. Especially the big reveal at the end. Argh! It kind of feels like I'm trying to push all the water to one side of the bathtub and keep it there.

Might be time to start an official analysis thread and hash it out some more ...

[Jaybird]

I totally understand about not wanting Iron Man to be a main character here. Honestly, I think it was accidental, but the dramatica model seems to insist on it.

[glennbecker]

You're 100% correct.

So, if we're good on Iron Man as MC, and feel good about the domains and concerns, then we're pretty close to a final storyform. Just need some dynamics, and the issue and problem levels.

Can't wait to be a hit at parties with my fun, new Civil War factoid! Hahaha

[Prish]

I haven't seen the movie, yet. Is the movie experience for the audience through the eyes of Iron Man, Tony Stark (MC), for sure? Is Captain America the Protagonist or is Iron Man? The title prompts me to ask.

[glennbecker]

If stopping Zemo from ridding the world of Super-People/Destroying the Avengers is the goal, then Captain America is the only person actively pursuing that goal. Even if he doesn't realize exactly what Zemo is doing until toward the end.

Jaybird makes a very compelling case that our experience of the movie, and our sympathies lie with Iron Man's personal issues.

It's worth checking out if you're into this kind of thing.

[Jaybird]

That actually brings up something else.

I think there are actually two stories (or at least two sets of throughlines) in the movie. I kept noticing that there are basically two sources of discord. You've got the Accords on the one hand, but then you have Zemo and his plotting on the other. Neither of these is actually dependent on the other, though they do magnify stress in the cast.

Notice how certain characters only care about one or the other -- Secretary Ross doesn't care at all about anything to do with Zemo, while T'challa doesn't really care about the Accords after the first five minutes.

[glennbecker]

SPOILERS

I could see that. The first driver seems to be Scarlet Witch's accident, the final driver I would see as Cap driving his Shield into Iron Man, effectively ending the Avengers.

The first driver seems completely separate from Zemo and his plan. It was kind of a rub for me when I was thinking about it. I feel like the Accord stuff plays out mostly in the Relationship Story with the two teams representing Cap and Iron Man. Just like the confrontation with the Mother at the University pulls double duty for Iron Man's personal throughline, and representing the world at large's changing opinion of the Avengers.

The Zemo stuff is played like a mystery, so the storytelling is really light throughout most of the movie.

Black Panther's quest for vengeance feels separate from the Overall Story. Kind of a sub-story. Ross seems to want to control the Avengers, and Zemo wants to destroy them. I think the confusion is that we don't really see what's happening until the big confrontation at the Hydra facility at the end.

All of the throughlines seem to be blended really well which makes objectivity kind of hard. I think all of the subjective stuff is pretty clearly Iron Man and Cap, but there could definitely be a split OS though.

I'd be interested what other people's thoughts are as well.

[Jaybird]

Well, the way it plays out in my head is Accords-Iron Man-Captain America and Zemo-T'challa-Bucky, with some cross-pollination. (As opposed to finding Nemo, where the Marlin-Dory story and the Nemo-Gil story are almost essentially separate).

[glennbecker]

Do you see the Zemo story as having it's own Relationship, MC, and IC or as a tale that's woven together with the storyform?

I think the problem I'm having is that the accords themselves seem to fall away pretty quickly. Ross shows up and tells them they have a choice to sign or face whatever comes. Then the UN meets to ratify the accords, but are bombed by Zemo. Then ... ?

I assume they just get ratified sometime off screen, as Ross gets his secret prison to lock up defectors. It feels like the accords only really serve to kick off the division of Cap and Iron Man, and once they've served that purpose, the story hands off to Zemo's plot.

I might need to rewatch with these questions in mind to see if some answers shake loose.

[Jaybird]

Spoilers: The accords I think were inevitable, but rather then be an object to the plot themselves, they serve to split the team into fugitive and non-fugitive parties. The accords aren't an end in and of themselves so much as a means to indicate they no longer have the world's blessing. Wherever the Avengers who didn't sign the accords go, they're marked as high level criminals. So their fate isn't affected by the accords so much as the decision not to sign.

[rocky]

Maybe this is a story with 8 throughlines.

Cap is MC of one throughline, Iron Man is IC of another
Steve Rogers is IC of one throughline, Tony Stark is MC of another
Zemo is Antagonist of one OC, Cap is Protagonist, IM is Contagonist
General Ross is Antagonist of another OC, Iron Man is Protagonist, Cap is Contagonist
Then there is one relationship story of Steve and Tony
And another relationship story of Cap and Iron Man.