Hey @jhay. How’s it going? Hope you’re in great health? Just checking in to ask how the work is going?
We eagerly await the awesomeness of your findings.
Godspeed friend.
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I’m all good, thank you! And it’s coming, I promise! I wanted to double check some of the findings since some stories were hard to place, so I’m just obsessively watching as many Physics movies as possible to figure it all out.
This is the watchlist at present*. There’s a lot (I’ve been doing them in double features based on storytelling similarities where possible), but I won’t watch all of them because I’m aiming to get the Physics set all uploaded sometime during the first week of August. And then the next will be first week of September, and the next first week of October. That way, I can watch a few movies and then update after the fact as I experience more and more stories.
So it’s coming! First week of August!
*I’ve managed to get through twelve so far (not on the list). The colour system isn’t representative of anything, just a key to let me know where I watch the movies (DVD, Netflix, etc.). Bolded and underlined are today’s watches: Erin Brockovich and Team America – what a double feature!
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Thanks for the head’s up! I’ll read everything carefully — train commute mulling-over time.
Awesome! And I like the movies on your list too. It’ll be worth the wait; I can feel it. Thanks again @jhay.
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This is so helpful, it really give a clearer idea of the Concerns by attaching familiar plots to a Type! I’m looking forward the next ones!
As for the consequences, I think you could add some examples, but I doubt a paragraph is really needed for these, since they tend to look similar to their counterparts.
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Presenting the Physics quad! At time of writing this, there are few consequences listed. I found that since I wrote the original post on a whim, I never actually made note of the consequences that Psychology stories have, so I have few “Understanding” consequences, etc. My bad. Once I get through the next two domains, I’ll start updating and they’ll grow, I’m sure.
Just one little theory I have before I set you all loose on this: I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s possibly some form of fractal logic within these subgenres. Much like the throughlines feature all four concerns in the form of signposts, these subgenres appear to feature all four ‘subtypes’, depending on the concern. For example, the subgenres in Obtaining are: Competitive, Security, Rebalance and Benefit. If we take Moneyball (a Competitive story), we can see these four types in action:
- The team is failing, and the efforts to address that problem. (Rebalance)
- Building the team up and cutting the dead weight. (Security)
- Going against the wishes of the coach/manager to try and win. (Benefit)
- The team break records, but ultimately lose. (Challenge)
Obtaining is currently the only concern with a full quad, but this pattern can be seen throughout all of the concerns. Eddie the Eagle has to fight to get to the olympics, then defend himself from his rivals and critics, before he can endeavour to compete. Spider-Man has to train himself to use his new suit before he can learn the truth about the Vulture and ultimately make a self-discovery about what it is to be a hero. In The Others, the family have to investigate the noises, but are forced to reflect on their past before they can truly appreciate what’s going on.
Until we have the full quads, this is just a theory. But an interesting one, certainly. As always, any notes or suggestions/corrections, please let me know. I’ll add a link to this in the original post. Happy writings!
Physics
##Doing
As a Concern/Goal
ENDEAVOUR STORIES: stories where characters are actively undertaking or pursuing a specific adventure or endeavour.
The Endeavour Story frequently deals with the pursuit of specific undertakings, such as a pair of artistic senior citizens attempting to visit and paint the seven wonders of the world, or a group of dogs attempting to stage a performance of Cats. Checking items off The Bucket List; staging a flop with The Producers, and writing the next great novel with the Wonder Boys all explore the difficulties in pursuing or undertaking a specific activity or endeavour.
EXAMPLES: All That Jazz; Almost Famous; Birdman; The Bucket List; Double Indemnity; The Empire Strikes Back (Romance); The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel (Season One); The Producers; Shakespeare in Love; Wonder Boys; Y Tu Mama Tambien.
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be confirmed.
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ATTACK STORIES: stories where characters actively fight for or against something.
The Attack Story often deals with the battle for or against someone or something, such as a wannabe soldier competing with professionals in a paintball tournament, or a mother fighting to rid the city of corrupt politicians. Eddie the Eagle fighting to prove himself; the Rebels igniting in Star Wars to prevent the Empire from taking over, and Ghostbusters fighting spirits from the other side all explore the experience of fighting against rivals or enemies.
EXAMPLES: Bull Durham; Cobra Kai (Season One); Creed; Eddie the Eagle; Ghostbusters; Logan; Princess Mononoke; Star Wars.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Defense stories, stories where characters attempt to protect others or survive themselves.
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DEFENSE STORIES: stories where characters attempt to protect or defend themselves.
The Defense Story usually deals with characters attempting to protect or defend themselves or others, such as a social worker protecting abandoned children, or a sensitive felon attempting to survive in a violent city. The Dark Knight protecting a corrupt city; attempting to outrun the mob while Some Like It Hot, and surviving through unspeakable horrors in Life is Beautiful (Holocaust Story) all explore the challenges faced when attempting to protect oneself or others.
EXAMPLES: American Sniper; City of God; The Dark Knight; Eastern Promises; Grave of the Fireflies; The Imitation Game; Life is Beautiful (Holocaust Story; Logan; Princess Mononoke; Romeo and Juliet; Some Like It Hot; The Jungle Book; The Thomas Crown Affair.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Attack stories, stories where characters actively fight for or against something.
As a Consequence
PUNISHMENT CONSEQUENCES: consequences where characters will experience some form of physical punishment for their actions.
The Punishment Consequences deal with the physical punishment instilled on characters, such as a disgraced comedian forced to film anti-alcohol PSAs, or a caveman forced to carry rocks across town as part of community service. Overseeing a country tearing itself apart after The King’s Speech; going through the legal process due to a Lolita complex, and serving time at a different prison from your beloved in Heavenly Creatures all reflect the experience of being physically punished for one’s failure.
EXAMPLES: Heavenly Creatures; Lolita; The King’s Speech.
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be confirmed.
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TERMINATION CONSEQUENCES: consequences where characters will no longer be able to do something.
The Termination Consequences deal with the characters’ termination of an activity they enjoy, such as a painter forced to find a new art after paint is outlawed in a small town, or a boxer giving up his livelihood to take care of a family member. Nina dedicating her life to something else if she cannot perform the Black Swan; Florence Foster Jenkins giving up singing, and living a normal life outside of the fashion world because The Devil Wears Prada all reflect the experience of being unable to do something.
EXAMPLES: Black Mirror: Nosedive; Black Swan; Florence Foster Jenkins; The Devil Wears Prada; La La Land; Sing!; Whiplash.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Continuation Consequences, consequences where characters will have to continue doing things that are inherently problematic or bad.
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CONTINUATION CONSEQUENCES: consequences where characters will have to continue doing things that are inherently problematic or bad.
The Continuation Consequences deal with the anguish of continuing down an unwanted road, such as a moralistic spy forced to continue performing acts of illegal torture for his bosses, or an unfulfilled wannabe rockstar continuing to perform as part of a boy band. Continuing one’s womanizing habits when things go Sideways; a Rebel Without a Cause continuing to be a member of a dysfunctional family, and Michael having to live the same old boring life in Tootsie all reflect the experience of an unwanted continuation.
EXAMPLES: Big Eyes; Harold and Maude; Rebel Without a Cause; Tootsie; Sideways
DYNAMIC PAIR: Termination consequences, consequences where characters will no longer be able to do something.
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##Learning
As a Concern/Goal
TRAINING STORIES: stories where characters are trained or prepared for a new environment or set of circumstances.
The Training Story tends to deal with characters being trained to prepare for a new environment or set of circumstances, such as a 2D cel animator learning to use 3D animation equipment, or a socially-awkward man learning to handle people in the workplace. Learning everything about the Dope trade; getting to grips with the Desk Set and learning How to Train Your Dragon all explore the difficulties in learning something new.
EXAMPLES: Desk Set; Doctor Zhivago; Dope; Edge of Tomorrow; How to Train Your Dragon.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Self-Discovery Stories, stories where characters discover or are forced to discover something about themselves or life in general.
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SELF-DISCOVERY STORIES: stories where characters discover or are forced to discover something about themselves or life in general.
The Self-Discovery Story often deals with characters discovering or being forced to discover something previously unknown about themselves or life, such as a self-conscious actor learning to appreciate who he is, or a woman with superpowers learning what it means to be a hero. Wonder Woman learning what is truly worth fighting for; learning to be good on Groundhog Day, and Lady Bird learning to be okay with who she is all explore the experience of discovering something one never knew.
EXAMPLES: Coco; Enough Said; Groundhog Day; Lady Bird; Spider-Man: Homecoming; Wonder Woman; Wreck-It Ralph.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Training Stories, stories where characters are trained or prepared for a new environment or set of circumstances.
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TRUTH STORIES: stories where characters actively seek out or force others to see the truth about something.
The Truth Story often deals with characters searching for or forcing others to discover the truth, such as a young girl searching for the truth behind her mysterious conception, or a woman attempting to help cult members learn the truth about their organisation. Raiders of the Lost Ark unlocking the truth behind the Ark of the Covenant; learning the identity of the stoolie in Stalag 17, and the Spotlight team seeking to learn what’s really going on all explore the challenges faced in the search for the truth.
EXAMPLES: Contact; Raiders of the Lost Ark (The Ark Story); Spotlight; Stalag 17; Three Billboards Outside Ebbing Missouri.
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be confirmed.
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As a Consequence
NEW RULES CONSEQUENCES: consequences where characters will have to learn to live in a new or unwanted environment.
The New Rules Consequences tend to deal with learning the ropes of a new situation, such as a nationalist being forced to learn a new language after waking in a world where nobody speaks English, or a meat-eater learning to go without meat after a climate change catastrophe. The British people learning to live without the Queen and the monarchy; the downsizers forced to learn a whole new system after everything is Up in the Air, and South Park having to learn to live in an overly sensitive and censored society all reflect the experience of learning the rules in an unwanted society.
EXAMPLES: The Queen; Up in the Air; South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut.
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be confirmed.
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IGNORANCE CONSEQUENCES: consequences where characters will be forced to live with or without knowing the truth.
The Ignorance consequences often deal with the turmoil that comes with learning or failing to learn vital information, such as a paranoid recently-divorced husband learning that his wife didn’t actually cheat on him, or the world’s worst filmmaker failing to learn from his mistakes and producing yet another flop. Learning that the rats are cooking the Ratatouille; learning about one’s wife having a Brief Encounter, and failing to learn about the scam that Mr. Smith Goes to Washington to reveal all reflect the experience of learning or failing to learn vital information.
EXAMPLES: Brief Encounter; In the Heat of the Night; La Dolce Vita; Mr. Smith Goes to Washington; The Princess Bride; Ratatouille.
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be confirmed.
Obtaining
As a Concern/Goal
COMPETITIVE STORIES: stories where characters seek to win a prize from an explicit win or lose competitive scenario.
The Competitive story often deals with characters faced with simple win/lose scenarios, such as a slacker seeking to win a year’s supply of ramen in a hacking contest, or a single mother attempting to win a congressional seat. Working to win a championship of Moneyball; a bunch of City Slickers getting to the end of the trail, and campaigning to win an Election all define the experience of trying to win one’s prize.
EXAMPLES: Akeelah and the Bee; City Slickers; Election; Moneyball; Pitch Perfect; Surf’s Up; The Dinner Game; The Disaster Artist.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Security stories, stories where characters seek to gain some form of personal security.
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SECURITY STORIES: stories where characters seek to gain or lose some form of personal security.
The Security story often deals with characters working to find some form of personal security, such as a single mother finding a suitable stepfather for her son, or a woman on the brink of bankruptcy looking to find a job. Winning custody of one’s son in a vicious battle pitting Kramer vs Kramer; achieving one’s freedom after a Hunt for the Wilderpeople, and The Godfather reclaiming his position of power all explore the difficulties of searching for personal security.
EXAMPLES: As Good As It Gets (Neighbors Story); Beauty and the Beast (1946); Central Station; Hunt for the Wilderpeople; Jeffrey; Jerry Maguire (Romance Story); Kramer vs. Kramer; Return to Me; The Godfather; Trainwreck; Volcano; Whale Rider.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Competitive stories, stories where characters seek to win a prize from an explicit win or lose scenario.
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BENEFIT STORIES: stories where characters seek to acquire or gain something that will benefit themselves or others in some way.
The Benefit story often deals with characters’ efforts to acquire or gain something that will have benefits for themselves or others, such as a cheapskate art dealer looking to obtain an original Picasso for his museum, or a gang of criminals looking to pull off one last heist on a casino. Stealing the groom from My Best Friend’s Wedding; gaining a million dollar donation while Bringing Up Baby, and acquiring a large payment on a Roman Holiday all explore the challenges faced when looking to find something of benefit.
EXAMPLES: Body Heat; Bringing Up Baby; Into the Blue; My Best Friend’s Wedding; Rain Man; Roman Holiday; The Palm Beach Story; The Quiet Man; The Wild Bunch; Three Kings; Unforgiven; What’s Up, Doc?.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Rebalance stories, stories where characters pursue the rebalance or protection of the status quo for the greater good.
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REBALANCE STORIES: stories where characters pursue the rebalance or protection of the status quo for the greater good.
The Rebalance Story frequently deals with characters pursuing the rebalance or protection of the status quo, such as a secret agent attempting to recapture an escaped terrorist, or a cowboy seeking vengeance on the man that killed his family. Erin Brockovich fighting to defeat corruption; getting Marty Back to the Future, and tearing down The Matrix all explore the obstacles faced when seeking justice and stability.
EXAMPLES: Back to the Future; Black Panther; Casablanca; Collateral; Enchanted; Erin Brockovich; Finding Nemo; Forbidden Planet; Guardians of the Galaxy; Hacksaw Ridge; Jaws; Kingsman: The Secret Service; Kung Fu Panda; Looper; Mad Max: Fury Road; Minority Report; Moana; Raiders of the Lost Ark (Raiders Story); Shrek; Sicko; Star Trek (2009); Team America: World Police; The Matrix; The Terminator; Thor: Ragnarok; True Grit (1969); Zombieland
DYNAMIC PAIR: Benefit stories, stories where characters seek to acquire or gain something that will benefit themselves or others in some way.
As a Consequence
DEBT CONSEQUENCES: consequences where characters will gain or lose some form of debt.
The Debt consequences often deal with characters being faced with some form of debt, such as a business genius losing millions in the stock market, or a chef inheriting his father’s student debt. Losing funding for the Glee club and losing money in a bet because She’s All That both reflect the experience of obtaining some form of debt.
EXAMPLES: Glee: Dream On; She’s All That.
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be Confirmed.
Understanding
As a Concern/Goal
INVESTIGATION STORIES: stories where characters investigate an event or pattern of events to understand something greater.
The Investigation Story usually deals with the examination into an event or series of events, such as a detective looking into a series of murders relating to crossword puzzles, or a priest attempting to figure out what’s behind a series of strange apparitions in his church. Trying to understand who The Others really are; coming to terms with the Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and deciphering what involvement the The Usual Suspects had on a case all explore the challenge of investigating something strange.
EXAMPLES: Invasion of the Body Snatchers; Scream; The Accountant; The Bourne Identity; The Others; The Sixth Sense; The Thirteenth Floor; The Usual Suspects; What Lies Beneath.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Appreciation stories, stories where characters are made to understand a specific concept.
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APPRECIATION STORIES: stories where characters are made to understand a specific concept.
The Appreciation Story typically deals with the efforts to force an understanding in another player, such as a police officer working to help a repeat offender understand the danger they pose, or a political activist trying to make their leader understand the importance of campaigning. Pulling off an Inception job to undermine someone’s work, and making the mob understand who’s really in charge On the Waterfront both represent the difficulties faced in making someone understand something.
EXAMPLES: Inception; On the Waterfront.
DYNAMIC PAIR: Investigation stories, stories where characters investigate an event or pattern of events to understand something greater.
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REFLECTION STORIES: stories where characters come to understand something after a period of reflection.
The Reflection Story usually deals with characters coming to some form of understanding about themselves or their environment, such as a parkour whizz coming to understand the dangers of their profession after a tragedy, or a young misfit finding a community that understands her. The Station Agent coming to understand his place in the community; helping Ricky understand that he and Lucy are having a baby in I Love Lucy, and helping the Captain understand just how good he has it through The Sound of Music all define the process of understanding something, upon reflection.
EXAMPLES: A Doll’s House; I Love Lucy; Smoke Signals; The Sound of Music; The Station Agent.
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be confirmed.
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As a Consequence
BITTER TRUTH CONSEQUENCES: consequences where characters will be forced to understand the bitter truth of their situation.
The Bitter Truth consequences often follow characters forced to grasp the often unpleasant truth of a specific situation, such as a trusting housewife coming to understand the depths of her husband’s infidelity, or an only child understanding that her parents never really liked her. Understanding that her intellectual abilities are too much for the human world; having everyone realise that a marriage of 45 Years is on the rocks, and understanding the sheer depth of deceit in Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? all reflect the experience of realising an unpleasant truth.
EXAMPLES: 45 Years; her; Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
DYNAMIC PAIR: To be confirmed.
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Second best part of my day. Bless you @jhay. Just so happy and pleased with these. So excited. Need to get home and digest.
I’ll revert once I’m done going through it. Many many thanks @jhay . Bless you
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This is truly awesome! I can’t imagine the amount of effort and thinking that must have gone into it.
What’s really interesting is that, at least for the stories I know well, the Subgenre seems to stay consistent for all of the OS characters.
For example, in The Matrix the good guys (Morpheus & team) are seeking to rebalance the status quo by tearing down / gaining control of the Matrix, while the Agents are protecting the Matrix from their meddling. But also the Agents are seeking to rebalance the status quo by getting the keys to Zion, while the good guys are protecting Zion.
Even the traitor Cypher is seeking to rebalance his life back to its previous, blissfully ignorant status quo by re-taking the blue pill.
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It took a little longer than I’d have liked because I wasn’t comfortable with some of the names and couldn’t make up my mind. Rebalance took forever to come up with.
Honestly, the hardest thing is watching the movies. Once you have the illustrations, the patterns are easy to find. But watching a lot of movies in a short space of time is hard, especially when you take notes at the same time. Sometimes, you get to revisit movies you haven’t seen in a while that you enjoy (The Thomas Crown Affair, What’s Up Doc?, Roman Holiday were three highlights) or find new ones that are good. But then you get to the ones that just don’t interest you so much and it gets tough (Forbidden Planet and True Grit were especially hard going, I didn’t even go near the Star Wars movies).
I hadn’t actually thought about that, but what you say is 100% right. Every character has some kind of perspective/connection to the subgenre.
In Kramer vs Kramer, for example, you have a LOT of security going on: Dustin Hoffman is looking to secure his family AND find a job; Meryl Streep is trying to find a life that she likes; the neighbour woman is looking for some kind of stability since her husband left; Hoffman’s boss fires him because he needs to secure his business interests; etc.
In The Thomas Crown Affair, Thomas Crown is protecting his reputation and thieving hobby, while Rene Russo’s character is trying to protect the interests of her employer, the FBI guy is defending his job, etc.
Great catch, Mike!
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Seminal work @jhay I’ll probably contribute to this in the far off future. For now I’ll just use it to aid my story telling.
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You might be mixing up the two films because the first does that, but Rene’s film has him helping the daughter of someone he honored out of trouble.
Haven’t seen the 1968 version, but the 1999 one definitely doesn’t involve any of that. There’s only two other female roles in the whole movie and that’s the forger and the psychiatrist, no daughter. He’s definitely just robbing the place for the fun of the chase, not helping anyone.
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The 1968 was just the chase. You should see it. It was a huge hit with the 60’s people and is a classic. I saw it in the theater like I did with Lawrence of Arabia and Dr. Zhivago. All three films were awesome, for different reasons. However, this remake went for a different Thomas.
The forger was Crown’s adopted daughter via guardianship. I took it that he found out she was forging and he was pulling her out of it. She was seeking to connect with her father or validate him, or some such.
from a script online not in any order, just finding words I remembered
Anna works for me.
She’s here because I owe her money and I wanted to pay her before I go.
I would be compromising her to say.
I just wondered if there was a connection between them, that’s all. Between Crown and that old man?
They owned a gallery together… Crown and Knutzhorn. In Berlin, 1990. And another one in Hamburg and one in Paris in '94. You notice the one-man show in Paris in '95? The artist is Knutzhorn. So? So look at the first name. Tyrol Knutzhorn. Yeah, we spoke to a Heinrich. You know what it was? The way he smiled at the painting? Pride. Paternal pride. - I bet you it’s his son. - Son of a great forger… who paints as well as Dad. Just hasn’t been caught yet. Well, I assume if you look… you’ll find Tyrol Knutzhorn lives in New York.
Tyrol Anna Knudsen… Knutzhorn. Whatever. Crown’s known her since she was ten. When her father went to jail, Crown became her guardian. Put her through college, for Christ’s sake. Now she works for one of his companies.
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@jhay. Was just going through your post again. Really amazing. While reading the Understanding Consequence, something hit me. For writers who use the storyform for constructing stories (as opposed to being a diagnostic tool) I think you could create a modulator of some sort much later. A sliding scale type breakdown. And it will strictly be influenced by the Story Judgement and Outcome.
So for Tragic or Bittersweet endings, these are the illustrations for using Understanding as a consequence.
For Happy endings or Personal triumphs, these are the illustrations for using Understanding as a consequence.
Just an idea really. But I have to thank you once more. Your work is truly phenomenal.
Bless you.
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Ah, okay. I don’t remember anything specifically, so you might be right. Would have to rewatch to be sure.
That said, the forger stuff is so minor (he even tells Banning that he only brought Knudsen in as bait to test her attraction, and then we get the later reveal that she had a bigger purpose) that I don’t think it’s a fundamental part of his character. He’s in it for the chase, not for any bigger motive.
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Not a bad idea! Will definitely look into it. I did have a version where the lists had additional details like ‘most popular in:’ (like Rebalance subgenre being most popular in superhero movies; or Attack subgenre being most popular in sports movies, etc. – basically just identifying the most popular ‘genres’ for each) but it became too constricting and I didn’t want people to be influenced by what’s ‘popular’.
I’ll add it to the to-do list! Thank you, @Khodu!
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Quick update:
Working on the Mind domain next because there’s so few, but it will take a little longer than planned cause I haven’t had a lot of free time this month, sadly. Only got around to watching four of the twenty(?) Mind stories. Oh, and twenty minutes of Peyton Place but, to be fair, that’s a tough watch given all of the unpleasantness (AND THE THREE HOUR RUNTIME).
So, for now, it’s been pushed back to October. But it’s happening! 12 Angry Men, The Babadook, Home Alone and When Marnie Was There down so far. Now onto the other… sixteen.
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Mind stories are so interesting. I just finished reading Stephen King’s “Apt Pupil” and really had no idea where it was until I read the analysis.
At some point I’d love to do a group analysis on Fahrenheit 451 (the book), which I strongly suspect is in Mind as well.
Good useful work Jay, appreciated as always!
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@jhay Bless you. Anything on the scale of what uve embarked on is worth the wait. I’m sure it will be phenomenal. Cheers.
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Hi everyone. Been a long, long, September. Hope we’ve all been productive? @jhay how’s your amazing work coming along? Been itching like a crackhead all month. I know it will be worth the wait. So is the ETA still first week of October? I can hardly contain my excitement.
All the best @jhay. Stay safe guys.
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