Holistic Problem-Solving: Can't See the Trees for the Forest

That movie launched careers (some of which are winding down)! Is it that old? I just looked for the emoji with a walking stick… :santa:

I’m not sure either. Yes, it is very linear my description. But more like a ricocheting bullet. I’d be interested in knowing some of the specific actions in Blazing Saddles (for instance) that show that make Bart a holistic problem solver. I certainly remember him being clever (I haven’t seen it in many years!).

I have no idea what kind of problem solver that I am. I like to know the details of an incident. I grew up most of my childhood in a single mother home. Because of this, I don’t have a lot of trouble understanding holistic problem-solving. I think. I don’t have a problem understanding linear problem solving either.

Sometimes, taking a pin and popping a balloon is the best solution to a problem. And sometimes, because of myriad factors, another solution is required. I’m very good at seeing the big picture.

Holistic problem solving isn’t magic, touchy-feely or whatever. I look at linear problem solving as a shortcut. Just like the givens that we accept as truth in our lives… they probably aren’t true in all contexts or situations. But they work well enough most of the time.

I think that a master of holistic problem-solving has the potential to be correct in their approach more often. It is more precise, but harder to wield.

I’m trying to think of the movie. I am quite sure that I saw it in the 80’s or 90’s (that narrows it down!). I don’t think that it is Orange County. I am almost sure that it is older than Orange County. I’ll keep thinking about it. Youtube searches have gotten me nowhere.

Bear in mind, there might be more to that scene. The man behind them was driving a sports car. He was impatient. He was honking his horn. He deserved it a bit. I also think that the boy might have been delivering the application for the girl… I don’t know. So many years ago.

For me, the primary difference between holistic and linear problem solving is macro vs. micro. System vs. component. Ecosystem vs. organism.

Think of Holistic thinking as two different types of pattern matching.

One is selecting a tree as being the solution in a forrest of problems because it is the intuitive answer.

The other is using intuition for seeing many of the possible solution trees in a forrest based on seeing just one problematic tree.

Either way, a holistic problems solver does this by getting the settings right to produce that result.

For example, a holistic problem solver sees a noiesy environment and thinks how can I quiet the group so we can start brainstorming.

Another example would be, a holistic problem solver speaks to a group of mothers who all claim the same child is theirs and threatens to kill the child to get more information about who the mother really is by reading their responses.

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By some of the definitions bandied about this could still be cause and effect. We would still be making the assumption that the mother would care. Something we are accepting as truth. But something in her nature might contraindicate this assumption.

I guess it makes me wonder if cause and effect should just be limited to linear problem solving. I think perhaps not.

I’m going to post a situation that I would consider holistic understanding later after class. I said earlier that I understood big picture. I meant to say that I understood people’s motivations holistically.

Based on my very limited understanding, I believe cause and effect should belong to both linear and holistic. Else wise, holistic is purely random, possibly insane, and not at all useful.
But holistic is where you take probabilities and add them together in parallel. Linear is where you take probabilities and add them together in serial.

Holistic is like lock picking. It isn’t enough to strike a pin. You have to strike the right pins and not strike the wrong pins in order for the lock to be picked. Each time you strike a pin is a cause and effect, but it is the right causes and effects happening simultaneously that makes the magic happen. You could figure out which pins to strike linearly, but that could take trying every possible combination. A professional locksmith will find the right pins a lot fsster using holistic techniques such as known vulnerabilities with the specific model of lock, etc.

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There was an incident with a teacher at my school. Let me try and set the scene for this story.

Every day, a female Indian teacher would show up at the windows of the teacher’s office and she would ask for a jar of pickles that were on her friend’s (a Filipino teacher’s) desk. Later in the day, she would return them.

This particular day, she had already asked for the pickles. The window had been left open.

Later in the day, she jokingly mentioned that the school hand recently created a brochure for the school and put only four white teachers within its pages. She made a point to joke about it but mentioned that it was unfair because she had been at the school longer.

This female Indian teacher often flirted with many of the other teachers. Perhaps her way of showing affection or feeling it.

This same day, the Indian teacher flirted with the American teacher pretty suggestively. Something about heating him up. He responded with, “yeah, only you can cool me down.” His intention was to be suggestive and trying to hint “cooling him down” would be something naughty.

The Indian teacher read this as a rejection of her flirting and her. That hurt her. He intended to reciprocate the flirting but the wording allows for alternate interpretations. For him it meant, yes please. For her it meant, no thanks.

The same day, the American teacher was quoting a movie. The movie is called “Blast from the Past.” The teacher in question quoted the line “A negro. My lucky stars!” The scene is quite funny if you have seen the movie. If you haven’t, that word could always hurt some feelings.

The same day that the American teacher had quoted the movie, he received a text from the Indian teacher. She said that it wasn’t nice to talk behind peoples backs.

Also, the American teacher heard another Filipino teacher in the office walk out of the office and say, “time for the negros to get back to work.” This was done as an aside. Loud enough to be heard, but not too loud. The level of volume where you think that you have heard it, but you instinctively say “what?”

He was confused. I’m pretty good at understanding people’s motivations.

So I said, here’s what happened.

The Indian teacher has a habit of coming to the window each day to ask for the jar of pickles, then she would return them every day through the same window. She asked me because I am by the window.

That day, she had asked for the pickles, but she had never returned them. The window had been left open from the asking.

She had heard the quote from the movie when she was returning the pickles and made an assumption that the comment was directed at teachers in the school that were not “white.” Maybe she would not have made that assumption if she hadn’t been hurt by the actions of the school or hadn’t felt rejected by the American teacher.

Here you have many different forces in play. This is what I see as using a holistic/big picture to evaluate a problem and create a solution.

The American’s solution was to explain the scenario step by step. He told her why he said this: because he was quoting a movie. The reason that he was quoting the movie: because a conversation in the office was going on about the Russian cold war and we ended up talking about the movie because of its relationship to this. He explained step by step, in a linear fashion, how the quote came up. He also said that the quote was not directed at any of the teachers in the school nor was did he intend any harm with the response to her flirting.

She doesn’t come into this office anymore. She doesn’t ever ask for the pickles anymore. Nothing.

My point about justifications and all that is you can easily say that the problem was miscommunication… and the American teacher tried to eliminate the problem of miscommunication linearly.

However, the true problem was hidden under these layers of other problems. The true problem was how the Indian teacher felt due to the relationships in her orbit: with the school and the teacher.

Probably, to fix the problem, it wouldn’t be so much about explaining something as much as it would be about reaffirming the relationship. Making the Indian teacher feel safe, appreciated, loved, whatever.

Men will generally say… what? I didn’t say anything wrong and I shouldn’t be punished for this mess. It is ridiculous. A woman might say, I’m sorry or I understand. Or you have every right to be angry. I’m angry too!

I have an ability to see this web of cause and effect. I don’t think that it is linear in its nature. It is big picture, but it is still logical.

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It is more than “just an assumption” since the mother is attempting to claim said children; (whether or not she cares about the children) she cares about something to do with them enough to try and claim them. If she gave no effs, she wouldn’t be trying to claim them in the first place.

I agree.

For me, holistic is just macro and linear is micro in terms of evaluation.

I think problem-solving has to do with depth of evaluation. It doesn’t really have to do with the action taken in fixing the problem. You can’t really say an action is holistic. The understanding can be holistic.

If I am claiming the child because she poops a golden egg each day, then I might exhibit fear at the idea of her death.

If a mother is claiming a child because she loves the child, then she might exhibit fear at the idea of her death.

I agree that the more we know about a situation, the more we will understand the entire range of forces in play.

I just don’t see how threatening to kill a baby would be linear or holistic in nature by itself. It is just a clever way to invoke reactions from the people involved. It seems pretty cause and effect to me.

Ah…it’s holistic because the threat isn’t the point…reading the room is the point. A person, mother or no, who loved the child or cared for their well-being, would likely relinquish their claim on the child rather than see them harmed. I take it you are unfamiliar with this trope?

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It’s a biblical story. No?

I think that the action taken to solve a problem is neither holistic nor linear. Without an exploration of the thoughts of a person, you cannot know if a character is holistic or linear in their process. Maybe the issue is… in movies it is much more difficult to express a character’s process. The logic behind the decision is obscured without knowing what’s inside the characters head.

Maybe this is even the reason that holistic problem solvers appear to be sidekicks more often than the MC. Because they seem to be holistic because we aren’t in their head and we can’t see any direct connection for their actions, but it is there.

Also, a character can either focus C on R or P and bring about O. Maybe there is an assumption that directing current at P is linear and directing current at R is holistic. But I’m not sure that is correct either.

It can’t really account for the complexities that a holistic evaluation of a situation would need to go through.

I just came up with that last bit… either you can increase/decrease the Current or increase/decrease the Resistance. I don’t know if that really has anything to do with the situation here. But…

Anywho, I’m not sure that I like linear and holistic. Maybe it would be more comfortable to say direct and indirect. I guess holistic problem solvers don’t feel unrelatable to me. But I do live in China and East Asia is famous for being holistic – so I am getting beaten over the head every day with it.

And it is a very foreign way of thinking in comparison to the west. Literally, their heads function differently.

Anyway, I think there is something troubling in the question or the answer about problem-solving style and I’ve tried to express some of those concerns here. Who knows. Maybe it means something. :slight_smile:

By the way, I think the movie might be How I got into College. Maybe… I need to try and find a copy.

Yep, 1 Kings 3: 16-28

This is exactly it.

Change the conditions, see what happens.

Hollistic characters use balance and imbalace to solve problems instead of directly solving them. —Often they do this through relationships.

Linear characters meet requirements as steps to a goal. —often these are sequential steps outlined by past performance.

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f9CafVU5kHx2egjM-BtO7748bPl8YYyO/view?usp=sharing

Here’s a link to the scene in question. I feel as though it is holistic, perhaps, because it goes beyond cause and effect.

If the sport’s car driver wasn’t a complete tool, it may have turned out differently.

Also, the boy thinks outside of the parameters of the equation that the girl is trying to put together.

Ooh, thanks for finding the clip!

I think it’s a linear response. Even looking beyond the ‘let’s think logically’ line (which always makes me think ‘linear’ thinker), he’s looking at the cause and effect of it all:

“The cop car is holding up these trucks, so we’ll never get past. If I slow down, he’ll have to speed up. And when he speeds up, he’ll whizz past the cop. When the cop arrests him, there won’t be any more hold up.”

I’m not sure if what she’s doing is Linear or Holistic, though. I would argue it feels more holistic because she’s looking at the big picture of the journey and thinking about the relationship between the length of the journey, which road the cop may take, and the speed they’ll have to hit to make it.

I feel as though this might be Holistic.

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: looks at motivations
Linear Problem-Solving Style: looks at purposes

  • The boy looks at why the line of vehicles are motivated to follow the speed limit.
  • The guy in the sports car looks to speed up.

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: tries to see connections
Linear Problem-Solving Style: tries to gather evidence

  • The boy sees the connection between the police officer and a douchey fellow in a sports car. They are like peanut butter and jelly. And he sees the connection between all the vehicles in the line and the police officer.

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: sets up conditions
Linear Problem-Solving Style: sets up requirements

  • The boy creates a condition that is unbearable to the guy in the sports car.
  • The girl talks about the requirements necessary to make the trip in time.
  • The guy in the sports car must pass the cars to speed up.

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: determines the leverage points that can restore balance
Linear Problem-Solving Style: breaks a job into steps

  • The boy thinks about what he can use to the maximum advantage: the doucheyness of people who drive Ferraris and a bored cop with no purpose. A marriage made in heaven.
  • The girl starts to define the problem in a step by step mathmatical equation.
  • The guy driving the sports car must pass the people blocking his way.

Interesting the equation is:

  • police officer + line of semi-trucks = us going too slow + sports car behind us

He just reorders the equation.

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: seeks fulfillment
Linear Problem-Solving Style: seeks satisfaction

  • The boy wants to fulfil the police officer’s needs.
  • We all know the satisfaction of passing people on the road (even when we aren’t in a hurry.)

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: concentrates on “Why” and “When”
Linear Problem-Solving Style: concentrates on “How” and “What”

  • The boy focuses on why and when the problem started.
  • The guy in the sports car focuses on how and what he needs to do to fix the problem: pass them all.

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: puts the issues in context
Linear Problem-Solving Style: argues the issues

  • The boy realizes that going faster isn’t the answer. Contextually, the answer is a pairing of two elements in the equation… not solving the equation.
  • The guy driving the sports car argues the issue by honking his horn and swerving erratically.

Holistic Problem-Solving Style: tries to hold it all together
Linear Problem-Solving Style: tries to pull it all together

  • The boy doesn’t fight the slowness, he embraces. He maintains his calm. He doesn’t force anything.
  • The guy in the sports car pull ( :stuck_out_tongue: ) in front of all the other cars. He tries to force the people in front of him to speed up (honking). He tries to force past them.

I don’t know. Maybe that was just an exercise in semantics, but I wish I knew if this kid was a holistic or linear problem solver. I’d have to watch the movie for that.

He wants to go to the go to the college in question because the girl is going there. He gets accepted and she decides not to apply after an a interview that she perceives as having gone poorly. He then encourages her to hand deliver her application.

I didn’t watch the whole movie, I just skipped through to find this scene. However, I remember most of it. I should watch it again and try to storyfrom it.

He just seems like an emotionally driven MC. I feel as though he is holistic, but I’ll have to watch it again to be sure.

Also, I don’t see why a linear and holistic thinking can’t arrive at the same solution. It is more about the journey than the action.

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I think this is why the Users Group meetings usually request multiple examples to back up the arguments. It’s easy to dismiss one example, but three or four consistent examples are harder to disprove. These are great points though. I’ll try and make notes on a few.

This, I think, is the best example I can point to of why I think it’s linear: this is a step-by-step/cause-and-effect relationship. He’s just not vocalising it as an ‘I can do this and then do this’, he just does it. Essentially, his thinking is a kind of ‘I can’t get anywhere because of the cop. But if I get this guy to speed up, he’ll get the cop out of the way and we can go on.’ Which is very linear.

She, however, doesn’t understand the logic of slowing down. And it’s only when he does it that she pieces it together. Which, depending on whether the guy is linear or holistic, is a pretty clear indicator that she will be the opposite.

I think her efforts to define the problem are way more holistic. I haven’t seen the movie, but her line of “We can’t go 55, it’ll blow the whole equation” leads me to believe that she’s trying not to upset the balance of things (it sounds like she’s already calculated the route and speed). And when it becomes clear that they won’t be able to keep going at that speed, she starts looking at everything else to maintain the balance she created: hence, trying to calculate what speed they’ll have to go and at what distance, dependent on whether or not the cop takes the other road, etc.

Does he, though? If he’s trying to fulfill anybody’s needs, it’s his own or the girl’s. All he really wants is to get to the front of the line. He’s not thinking about the cop’s needs. He barely even focuses on the cop, actually. Only really at the beginning before the jerk turns up.

Again, I’d say it’s the girl that’s trying to hold everything together. She’s the one trying to figure out how to ensure they don’t slow down and ‘ruin the equation’.

They could arrive at the same solution, but their methods of getting to it would be WAY different. There’s a great post on this very site that illustrates how a Holistic assassin would work, as opposed to the commonly-understood linear assassin (which is basically just ‘I find the target and kill them’). Essentially, they have different ways of handling situations. Whichever one works better for the given situation depends on the situation (and the author, naturally).

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I noticed in the real world some things that could be examples of the difference between holistic & linear preferences. Caveats: I make no claims to expertise. I think one preference is not better or worse or smarter or dumber than the other. Everyone uses both to some degree–depending on the context & if the initial preference doesn’t work well. Also, in some cases, they look like semantic differences because most people use both as complements in the thinking process & don’t necessarily separate them out into this linear process and that holistic process.

  1. Problem: Train a new employee/student on how to perform a complex task.
    Linear: The directions state step 1 is…, step 2 is…, step 3 is…, etc until the last step, step 10. It’s been proven to work for last 20 years–both in terms of ease of use and reliable effectiveness.
    Holistic: The key steps are 4 & 9. The other steps have some importance but, in truth, you can take or leave them. We should change this process anyway because it’s inefficient.

  2. Problem: Assess your relationship with another person.
    Linear: How is it going? What is the situation of this point in time now?
    Holistic: Where is it going? What is the direction projecting forward?

  3. Problem: The state legislature hears a debate on exacting & spending taxes to build a bridge.
    Linear: What are the effects of the outcome of having this bridge once it is built?
    Holistic: What are the tradeoffs involved in the process of building the bridge?

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Haven’t seen this. But it reminds me of Mulan. All the men were trying to get to the top by just climbing the pole with their hands. Only she saw the way the weights in the scarf could be used as a way to get up the pole much more easily.

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If you want to understand holistic vs. linear, I’ve found no better example than going to a local park, doctor’s office, or the like where adults are overseeing a bunch of energetic young kids and watching those adults. Those that are skilled at overseeing a bunch of energetic young kids are exemplifying the holistic approach.

Throw out the “feminine” vs. “masculine” bs. It isn’t helpful.

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