How do you introduce people to Dramatica?

theory
#1

Yesterday I had a long conversation with a local author (sci-fi/fantasy novelist) about story structure and he seemed a lot more interested than I expected in Dramatica. He does seem to be a structuralist so maybe that makes sense. He even picked up the Table of Story Elements chart with a look of interest rather than confusion!

When this happens, what are the best links / materials to start people on? Just send them the link to the theory book? I also like Jim’s “Neo and Luke are not the same” article to give people a feeling of how powerful the theory is that it can tell the difference there, although maybe that’s just me.

#2

I resurrected this gem from 2005 recently about Dramatica Simplified. I remember Chris explaining it to me this way and suddenly all was clear!

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#3

This one was a fave of mine in getting started:

It’s introduces the four perspectives / domains using familiar stories, and without any prompt, my mind started thinking “hey what if I, You, We, and They were in different domains than these stories?” Been hooked ever since.

#4

Thanks guys, those are great. Keep 'em coming!

I think it would be great to hear from those newer to Dramatica as well, to know what it was that piqued your interest or hooked you.

Funny, I recall reading Jim’s Neo vs. Luke article without any prior exposure to Dramatica. As I read through the article, the progression was like:

  • Initial interest and openness to the article, as I never felt that Neo and Luke were the same, and the two movies always felt quite different.
  • Reading more… Who does this guy think he is, that he can use some weird theory to chop up great stories into these weird terms?
  • Neo not believing in things makes sense … but Luke doesn’t struggle with needing to test himself all the time! Oh. Wait… Hmm…
  • Wait, now you’re telling me everyone in Star Wars is Testing too much?!! It’s not a movie about Quality Assurance!! This is crap!! Yet I still felt compelled to keep reading…
  • Ooh, Star Wars is about Doing, that is a cool observation. Something about this felt so right to me.

Then I read this part:

You can’t have a Main Character with a Problem of Disbelief in a story about Doing.

That blew my mind. Suddenly I was like, whoa, there is a theory of story that can tell you how things fit together, and what doesn’t fit? That issues of Disbelief only belong in certain stories? That’s what hooked me!

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#5

So I was looking into STC which at first I thought was interesting, but quickly saw how disconnected and meaningless the beats were and how they forced the events of my story to happen in what I felt would be the wrong order. When I saw an ad for Dramatica and checked it out, it spoke about how it was all about creating meaningful stories and how it gave you a reason that one event would follow another. Sounded exactly like what I needed.

As an aside, the first big project I started working on with Dramatica has the MC killing a dog, a meaningful act that also sticks it to STC a bit.

Later, I was reading a Dramatica article about story drivers (if I remember correctly) and it spoke about The Dark Knight. I never cared for the scene with the prisoners and citizens on the boat with the choice to blow up the other. It seemed cliche, and I knew pretty close to how it would play out as soon as it started. Whenever I mentioned that I didn’t think that scene fit, everyone else would always say,"meh, it’s okay I think. ". So when the article suggested that that scene didn’t work because it was a decision driver in an action driven story, it had me sold. I didn’t understand everything it was saying at that point, but any theory that could tell me why that scene didn’t work (and that agreed with me about it when others wouldn’t admit that it didn’t work) I felt must have something going for it.

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#6

Avoiding the False Moment :relaxed:

#7

I also just found this article from Melanie: Introduction To Dramatica
It’s a bit heavy for newbies, but a pretty good introduction to the concept of the Story Mind.

#8

Mike, I remember seeing an advertisement for Dramatica v.1.6 in the MacMall about 1995. I purused and studied the graphic for about 20 minutes, and I bought the software based on that picture. It was on a background of burgundy and dark green, that I remember. I jumped a huge learning curve studying it. However, I can’t find my old copy…drats. I have come up with a later one, similar in tone. Chris said I could post it, here. Maybe, it will help your friend, too. As an aside: if anyone has that original graphic from the first dram pros, can I have a copy?

WDK-Logo.jpg1400×1400 509 KB

#9

Thanks Patricia. Can you tell me what the diagram represents? I can see the more apparent stuff: four throughlines / classes, each with four concerns, and each with what appears to be their own story, coming together in some sort of nexus in the middle which must represent what we see as the actual story after all the weaving.

Do the different appearance of images (solid, blurry, negative, mosaic) represent the different perspectives on the story, the feeling of different throughlines? Which is which? I could the solid one being “objective” overall story, but I could also see the OS as the mosaic of may different characters.

Are the general circular patterns supposed to be like quad-ified yin-yang? (with a second quad-yin-yang inside them, does that represent the Issue level and Problem level?)

#10

I don’t know. I do know that the original had been done as a work of art (my take on it from what the artist said, 20 years ago). So, you know how art goes, at least 50% from the subconscious level. Just let your friend enjoy it on his subconscious level. That’s how it helped me grasp some aspects of the theory, way back when.

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#12

Hey @VIlle that sounds like my experience introducing my girlfriend to Dramatica as well…once you bring in real life, it’s hard to be skeptical about what the theory demonstrates.

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#13

Wouldn’t mind hearing a bit more @jhull ! Later, my girfriend had an even better response: “You know, I should write my thesis about Dramatica as a tool in psychology!”

#14

My girlfriend and I spent some time last year pointing out each other’s blind spots using the Table of Story Elements - essentially acting as Influence Characters to each other. There was one quad in particular that made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever–and it was exactly where I was hiding something I didn’t feel comfortable dealing with.

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#15

Hey Jim, when you say that quad made no sense whatsoever, what do you mean exactly? You couldn’t see how the elements in the quad related to each other? Or do you even mean the individual elements’ definitions didn’t make sense?

I’m just wondering what we should look for, to find our own blind spots.

#16

Perhaps the forest from the trees, is at play?

#17

That’s eerily similar to[quote=“jhull, post:14, topic:819, full:true”]
My girlfriend and I spent some time last year pointing out each other’s blind spots using the Table of Story Elements - essentially acting as Influence Characters to each other. There was one quad in particular that made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever–and it was exactly where I was hiding something I didn’t feel comfortable dealing with.
[/quote]

That’s eerily similar to what I realized after describing her the “story”: I was her impact character with her as Change MC; afterwards, I realized by changing her to Steadfast, my Critical Flaw was something she’s pointed out to me in the past. I think it’s pretty much the definition of a good relationship when you can play each other’s impact characters.

#18

… as long as it doesn’t turn into a shouting match? Or other bad parts of a relationship, like constantly criticizing each other with little to no support?

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#19

I think shouting matches define just one set of possible IC/MC relationships – the SS Thrughline can take many forms, sometimes loud, sometimes subtle. Personally, I don’t see the role of an Impact Character as being a critic per se, although in certain stories that is the case.

What I meant was, being each other’s “impact characters” in a relationship is inherently better than being silent and keeping up the status quo; to me, that’s what makes a relationship win-win and a chance to grow for both parties. It turning into a shouting match depends on how the people involved choose to “write their story”, just as the type of IC/MC relationships in fiction depend on how authors choose to write them – loud or subtle.

Sorry, BTW, I feel like I’e hijacked this thread a bit.

#20

When I mean they didn’t make sense, I mean the four of them together literally looked like a giant black hole to me. I couldn’t see how they could relate to one another. Those same elements in other quads made perfect sense to me and of course, I knew the definitions of them.

But for some reason, seeing them together just didn’t feel right. Why would they be together?

And the reason is: they represent a big personal issue for me.

And here’s the crazy part – even knowing that, it’s still difficult to work through them or make sense of what they mean.

And this was 6 months ago…

#21

Wow. Thanks Jim. That gives me a lot to think about.

Does that quad tend to come up in stories that you want to write? I know you’ve said before that our subconscious tends to home in on our own personal issues in the stories we want to tell…

I looked at the Theme Browser to see if there might be similar quads for me, but I think at the Problem level I will need more experience with Dramatica, since many of those terms I can’t quite “feel” yet, but maybe more due to lack of experience than personal issues.