Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan Online Analysis

analysis
#82

To me, there doesn’t seem to be a very big concern over Learning or Gathering Information. I did not get the sense that Understanding was constantly addressed either from the characters throughout the film.

Now there is a bit of Obtaining in the mix, Carol Marcus definitely wants Genesis back, Kirk wants to get it at some point as well, Khan obtains it midway through but the nature of the goal didn’t feel to me as though the device was at the center of everything.

Khan was Doing things since the very beginning to attract Kirk, causing problems for The Federation. He mind controlled some of members of the Federation to deceive the scientists in charge of Genesis (Carol Marcus). He steals the Genesis device. Kirk tries to deceive Khan and gets his own ship damaged. Khan leads his crew into the nebula which ends up being his undoing.

Kirk - How Things Are Changing - Maybe at one point he was able to convince himself of a no win situation but now he must face the idea that that isn’t always the case. Throughout the film he’s trying to cope with the fact that he is getting old and worn out.

Spock - Impulsive Responses - The only thing I can think of here is that his selfless act to get warp drive back online got him to think of Spock in a different light. To reflect back on his wise words and get him to feel young again.

Relationship - Manipulation - There were many instances where Spock was trying to relay some very inspiring words to Kirk to get him to realize his true role of Captain which would get Kirk out of his slump both personally and professionally. It finally worked when he sacrificed himself to save the Enterprise.

#83

OK. Here’s my alternative set.

OS: Obtaining – Kirk is trying to obtain the safety of the Enterprise, Khan is trying to obtain his revenge, and Genesis. Drs. Marcus are trying to obtain a planet to test Genesis on. The cadets are trying to obtain their commissions.
MC: The Future – Kirk feels tired, worn out. He confronting a future in which his adventurous spirit is put to rest. He is also helping to train the future of Starfleet.
IC: Innermost Desires – Spock is defined by his loyalty to Kirk. His desire is for Kirk to command a starship again. He insists that Kirk take the Enterprise to Regula. He even gives up his life for Kirk and the ship in the end: “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done before… a far better resting place I go to than I have ever known…”
RS: Changing One’s Nature (Becoming) – Kirk and Spock must become captain and first officer again if they are to defeat Khan.

I think Obtaining works better than Doing because Doing to me is more about the process itself, like in Ed Wood, in which the characters are concerned with making the movies, not simply having them as a finished product.

#84

Would you have an argument for Conceiving an Idea as being the central point of Concern between Kirk and Spock. The Manipulation argument works well, but how is Conceiving an issue between them?

#85

Conceiving a solution to the no-win situation? Spock has never taken the Kobayashi Maru test and Kirk cheated.

#86

Relationship - Conceiving an Idea - I’m finding a little difficult to extract the problems between them on this one without speaking in terms of their overall story roles but there seemed to be a couple of subjective problems between them such as Conceiving the Idea to either “Go by the book” or not, as well as Conceiving the Idea of how they can implement a plan that will “Fulfill the needs of the many rather than the few”.

Those notions came up between them a few times and not to harp on the action again but Spock’s action that allowed them to warp away kind of solidified this: He did not go by the book and he was able to save the many while sacrificing himself (the few).

Also there was the conversations about Kirk re-assuming his role as Captain and I could see the argument between them being How can we defeat a nemesis like Khan without our old Captain in the chair? (Conceiving an Idea).

#87

Conceiving the idea to “go by the book” or not could be a Signpost of Conceiving. Conceiving the Idea of how they can Implement a Plan that will “fulfill the needs of the many rather than the few” however sounds like a signpost of Developing a Plan (or Conceptualizing) rather than Conceiving.

That said, I completely misread your argument! I thought you were arguing for lower right, but you were arguing for Upper Right. In that case, how do you see Spock and Kirk arguing over Playing a Role, or Pretending? And this should be something that exists throughout the entire story, not just one Act.

#88

How about arguing over BEING the captain? Not really playing the role this time but Being the captain and Spock Being the first officer. The argument is not about changing their natures but being what they are, Kirk the captain and Spock the first officer of the Enterprise.
Spock’s Influence on Kirk is in terms of Impulsive Responses. Built into the mind is an instinctual base of reactions and attitudes that cannot be altered but merely compensated for. Spock’s problem revolves around the suitability of Kirk’s essential nature to this situation. The solution lies in influencing Kirk to realize this.
OS in DOING. I keep thinking that this movie is about processes. Working on the Genesis Project. Khan getting Revenge on Kirk. He doesn’t kill him he wants him to go on suffering. The Crew of the Enterprise working on the process of being a Star-fleet crew. Getting their bearings and living up to Captain Kirk’s legacy.
Kirk’s main concern is with how things are changing. He is not comfortable with the direction his life is going.

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#89

Oh yeah… I even forgot what I was arguing lol! My feelings mirror SPotter’s but to add onto it a little bit… because I feel as though Kirk assumed the role of captain about 30 mins in and never really stopped trying to be captain after that, I feel as though Spock tries to make Kirk confront what kind of captain he wants to be. The Kirk he once knew or the sort of “post admiral” captain who’s carrying around the baggage of feeling old and leaving his family.

#90

My post was directed towards the RS btw.

#91

I have to admit I tend to gravitate to the upper right quadrant for some reason. I am definitely willing to consider the lower left or others.
Having to articulate our arguements is so valuable. It’s hard and on my own I just gloss over the reasoning like when creating an act 2(act2a&act2b) in my mind it all falls together but when I have to write it, all the fuzzy parts have to make sense.

#92

My argument is basically that even though there is a lot of Doing in the movie, the Concern doesn’t seem to be in the Doing, but in the Obtaining. Doing and Obtaining are a dynamic pair, so it’s easy to see both as the story’s conflict plays out. The trick is figuring out what the characters are really after.

#93

Ed Wood sounds like a good example of Doing but also a bit obvious. In this film the most obvious thing to for Kirk is to save his crew (achievement) for Khan the most obvious goal is revenge (achievement) but in terms of a story point the question is what is the nature of this goal, which Concern in the Activity Domain seem to be giving everyone the most problems, my answer is Doing. Everyone seems to be Doing things that make this story escalate. Each time a character does something to the other the stakes get higher and it isn’t always in the vein of obtaining. I could be wrong in my analysis here but that’s where I’m coming from.

Spock’s Impulsive Responses don’t appear too influential to Kirk until the very end so it may be just a Signpost. Where in that case an argument for a different arrangement of Concerns could be possible.

Kirk does feel to be very concerned about How Things Are Changing tho… his ascension to Admiral reflecting his feelings about his age. His slide back into the captain’s chair and his concern if he can still lead. He’s definitely impressed with Genesis’ capabilities which I think shows him that there is still the potential for Progress to be made.

Also the Playing a Role or Being makes perfect sense to me as a Concern for Spock and Kirk because Spock literally says that the Admiral role is not who he is meant to be, Spock wants the old Kirk back and ironically enough the old Kirk acted very young and adventurous which could be an Ability vs Desire argument.

#94

It’s a very subtle argument in this movie, I think. On the one hand, Khan says, “He tasks me – and I’ll have him. I’ll chase him round the moons of Nibia and round the Antares maelstrom and round perdition’s flames before I give him up.” That sounds like Obtaining.

But later he says, “I’ve done far worse than kill you, Admiral. I’ve hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you.” Certainly, this is Doing.

It’s a tough thing to get one’s head around. Or at least, my head around.

#95

Another good way to look at this, especially when you’re not sure which Concern is right, is to look at the Issues underneath.

When you look at the aging starship captain, the science officer, the crew, the maniacal madman and his crew are they dealing more with Issues of Self-Interest, Morality, Approach and Attitude? Or are they dealing more with Skill, Experience, Wisdom and Enlightenment? Which group of those four sound more like the area where trouble exists as the madman seeks out his revenge?

(Hint: You can also do this for the other Throughlines as well…)

#96

That’s my issue. Though there seems to be a lot about Skill and Experience in the film, that doesn’t seem to be where the trouble is coming from. Khan has an Attitude. He wants revenge on Kirk at all costs. Joachim tries to talk him out of it, but he presses on. Kirk’s Approach of not going “by the book” leads him to get caught with his shields down. Spock’s solution at the end reeks of Morality, and the Genesis Device itself presents a Moral problem. And Khan’s gang (represented by Joachim) is motivated by Self Interest, of course.

#97

Well, when you put it like that. I would say they are not having trouble with wisdom, enlightenment, experience, or skill. They all play a big part but thematically “it is a far far better thing that I do” morality is a big question. Approach and attitude are problems.

#98

I’d also point out that the MC seems to have issues with Openness, Delay, Choice, and Preconception more than Fact, Security, Threat, and Fantasy.

#99

Does anyone who advocates the Upper Right quad have an argument for the Issues underneath? If not, we should probably pick the Lower Left (Obtaining, Future, etc.) and proceed…

#100

I was advocating the upper right and the lower left started to stand out more when it came down to the issues, especially when i considered that for nearly the entire movie everyone was trying to get their hands on Genesis at some point or another… I’m good with moving on but whats the argument for lower left, who’s post came the closest to why its the lower left?

#101

Let me try to make an argument for all four of the lower left quads.

Cap’n Kirk: Future-Kirk needs to be more open, willing to reevaluate his future, his relationships, his place in star fleet. He has problems with his preconceptions (Kirk has preconceived notions that because he is older there are things he is suppose to do. He ignores safety regulations in regards to the Reliant) and others preconceptions of him (his son, David, for one and his preconceived ideas of Star Fleet and Kirk ) Will he make a Choice (decision) to take over command of the Enterprise. Does he need to make a decision about Khan or Delay Khan’s satisfaction.

Spock: Innermost Desires- The issues here are Closure vs. Denial and Hope vs. Dream. Kirk’s denial to admit to himself that his previously held views of cheating death are not true. He’s just been avoiding it. In this story Closure is used to show that even though the immediate problem has been resolved, the relationships among the characters is never-ending. Closure is useful in letting one know when the job is done. Spock wants Kirks doubt(or self-reflection) to come to a close so that he can continue with his career?
Hope is for the desired future that is within reasonable expectations. Dream is the desired future NOT within reasonable expectations. Spock certainly seems to think Kirk taking back the Captain-ship of the Enterprise is reasonable and Kirk can only Dream about it.

Captain/1st Officer relationship: Changing Nature- Rationalization, Obligation, Commitment, Responsibility= These all fit well into the “military paradigm” of taking command and duty. Because of the danger of Khan there is good Rationalization for Kirk to take command. Kirk and Spock’s Obligation to each other and how the safety of the crew depends on their Captain/1st Officer relationship.

Khan/Genesis Story: Obtaining/Achieving- APPROACH (one’s methodology of doing or being) vs ATTITUDE(demeanor or outlook) this seems to be strong in the Protagonist vs. Antagonist vain.
MORALITY (doing or being based on what is best for others) vs SELF INTEREST (doing or being based on what is best for oneself) Do both protagonist and antagonist forget about the interest of others (at least for a time for Kirk) and their Moby Dick type obsession cause troubles for everyone until Morality comes into play and wins over?
Even the Genesis Project is made for Moral reasons but, as Bones questions, what is the potential for this science to be used to destroy?

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