Starting a storyform before answering 12 essential questions

Maybe not. Maybe Dramatica is showing you that there’s more to understand than you realized, so you really understand your story better even if it feels like you understand it less just because you see all the potential there is to understand it. Keep the glass half full!

Instead of continuing to speculate on where the throughlines for this story might fall, let’s do this. Let’s look at how the processes and their conflict work to create a throughline and then see if we can use that to figure out the story.

So first off, there’s nothing inherently problematic with either of the things I highlighted above. In order to determine a throughline for Mitch (and I’m assuming both of those sentences speak directly to Mitch’s throughline, but they could both be about the OS just as easy) we need to know why one of these things is a problem. (Buckle up, this is feeling like it might be another overly long post, ugh sorry :expressionless:, I’ll try to quit doing this)

Here’s the thing. Dramatica deals in inequities. Some will see an inequity as a problem while others see it as an imbalance. It works like this. Let’s say we’re looking Physics and Psychology. An inequity between the two just means that there is somehow an imbalance in the mind between those two processes. There’s too much pressure being applied to one area and not enough to the other. What we do is we pick one of those and say that process is fine just the way it is. Then we assign all the conflict we feel to the other process. So let’s look at how that works.

Just to keep it simple, I’m going to stick with what you’ve said about Mitch and keep looking at Physics and Psychology. So let’s replace Physics with “Arranging his mother’s funeral” and we’ll replace Psychology with ‘being discontent’. As long as these two are in balance, there’s no problem, but as soon as they are out of balance Mitch will sense that he has a problem. At that time Mitch will need to decide that one is fine and assign conflict to the other. We can look at both.

First let’s say that Mitch doesn’t see a problem with being discontent. That means he assigns all conflict to arranging his mother’s funeral. When he experiences an existential despair, he assigns that to arranging his mother’s funeral. When he sees his mother’s ghost floating around his house at night, he assigns it to arranging his mother’s funeral. Just so we can see it clearly, let me restate both in a way that shows process and conflict.

-Arranging his mother’s funeral (Process) causes Mitch to fall into an existential despair (Conflict)
-Arranging his mother’s funeral (Process) leads to Mitch seeing his mother’s ghost (Conflict)

Now let’s see what happens when Mitch doesn’t see a problem with arranging his mother’s funeral. That means he assigns all conflict to being discontent. When he experiences an existential despair, he assigns that to being discontent. When he sees his mother’s ghost floating around his house at night, he assigns it to being discontent. Lets restate both in a way that shows process and conflict.

-Being discontent (Process) causes Mitch to fall into an existential despair (Conflict)
-Being discontent (Process) leads to Mitch seeing his mother’s ghost (Conflict)

In the first example, the conflict was assigned to ‘arranging his mother’s funeral’ which is what we used instead of Physics. So we know the process there is Physics and thus that would be a throughline of Physics. In the second example, the conflict was assigned to ‘being discontent’ which is what we used instead of Psychology. So we know the process there is Psychology and thus that would be a throughline of Psychology.

With that in mind, can you tell us some of the things that might happen in the story by separating the Process and the Conflict as I did above?

2 Likes

Thanx Greg. I’m on to it. “Buckle up, this is feeling like it might be another overly long post, ugh sorry” Brilliant!

I absolutely agree. Good points.

Heelllppp! I’m loosing track! Who am I dealing with? Good cop, bad cop!

When Mitch first sees Sadie performing in a duo (process) he begins to think up ways of getting to meeting her (conflict)
When Mitch overhears Sadie tell a colleague she is thinking of going to Oxford (process) Mitch panics and contemplates declaring to Sadie his life for her (conflict).
When Mitch thinks Sadie has gone to Oxford to study (process) he is left distraught (conflict).
While sorting through his mother’s papers (process) Mitch discovers his name is not on the council tenancy (conflict).

1 Like

When his desire for Sadie becomes overwhelming (process) he goes in search of a prostitute, hoping to find one who resembles Sadie (conflict).

I should be sure to preface everything I say here with “I’m not an expert, just learning.”

That said, I think

might be more accurate to say something like:

When Mitch first sees Sadie performing in a duo (process) the sight of the vivacious young woman fills him with desire and existential angst that he doesn’t know what to do with (conflict). In response, he begins to think up ways to meet her (process) but this causes conflict for him because he believes he is too old and could never ask her out.

Conflict is two things that can’t exist at the same time, either internally or externally.

(@greg is this right?)

Not all Lakis (by the way, are you good or bad cop?) It’s amazing seeing how you chaps work. It’s priceless!

I think it’s more that @Greg and @Lakis are doing all the work while I’m sitting back and taking pot-shots at them from the sidelines! :slight_smile:

I am the medium cop :expressionless:

Seriously though I think we’re all just trying to learn ourselves. I find it helps me articulate things to myself to by trying to answer other people’s questions. But I’m still pretty new compared to Greg, and Mike is a certified DSE (Dramatica Story Expert) so you should always listen to him :grin:

And if Jim Hull or Chris Huntley weigh in, that’s when you should really sit up and pay attention! (I also keep hoping that Armando will join in a conversion too – it was exciting to see him post recently).

Anyway I hope our discussion is useful and not confusing you.

All of you have been amazing, and I’m not just saying that. Your knowledge and ability to see the possibilities in the software is infectious. For me, a kinesthetic learner, I would like to see more diagrams to illustrate all of your well-written explanations.

1 Like

Oh how exciting! Out first spam post. We must be reaching a wider audience now :slight_smile:

Thanks for flagging it, makes it easier for me to destroy it!

2 Likes

Before going on, I want to bring up that not everything I’ve said so far has been strictly accurate. I get to talking and some of the lines between ideas get blurred and i’ll misspeak. Thanks to @mlucas for keeping me honest by bringing up the following in a private conversation (don’t worry, I got permission to share).

I was talking about inequity in the human mind and then switched to inequity in a story and should have spoke of the authors view or of the storymind instead of speaking of what Mitch sees as the problem. Good catch, Mike!

1 Like

But you do know that you’ve scored an emotional connection with what you do have, seeing how in depth responses have been. Something you’ve been doing has been very right on, imho.

1 Like

Same here.

I may be doing this a bit different, but the way i understand it there’s inequities and problems, and there’s conflict. Inequities and problems, if I understood what i was reading about it, are pretty much the same thing. The difference between the two is the problem solving style of the mind the inequity is in. Holistic problem solvers see the relationship between two processes, the inequity or imbalance between them, where Linear problem solvers are just looking at the one that they see as out of place. My understanding is that the inequity is about two things that can’t co-exist. For instance, in the earlier post where I looked at ‘arranging his mother’s funeral’ and ‘being discontent’ we might say that Mitch can’t arrange his mother’s funeral and be content. In the more often cited example of desiring a new car, the imbalance is desiring a car you don’t have the ability to pay for. You can’t get the car unless you can pay for it.

So you have inequities and problems, and then you have conflict. I think of conflict as it relates to Dramatica as being the proof that a given process is problematic. It’s an argument, a clash, a disharmony, turmoil. So if you want a new car that you can’t afford, you know it’s a problem because you keep getting distracted by thoughts of a new car, or you know it’s a problem because you never see your family now that your working two jobs to save up for a car.

So this one:

In the right context could be the process and the conflict that goes along with it. But I don’t see the context that makes thinking up ways of meeting her a clash or a bit of turmoil. I do see that clash in this one, though:

And I see it in these:

I’ll admit that that description of conflict is probably not the most successful, but that’s how I tend to use it.

1 Like

Actually that’s not true (unless you meant Mike Wollaeger)… I did a mentorship with Jim and the Princess Bride analysis came out of that. But I am going to pursue the DSE certification with Chris Huntley, I just haven’t found time while writing my novel that has turned out to be stupidly long… :smiley:

2 Likes

@emm, I think these are fairly good examples. Can you look on the Dramatica chart and see which processes you think are at play?

Also, can you look at Mitch’s entire arc in the story, at the Problem only he is dealing with, and give us one example of a process and conflict that sort of encompasses the whole of that story?

Here’s a quick and dirty example of how I might describe the character of Reds entire story in The Shawshank Redemption.
Being institutionalized (process) would prevent Red from being able to successfully escape from Shawshank and join the outside world.(conflict)

1 Like

Oh no I guess inadvertently promoted you! Well, now you have to do it so I won’t be proven a liar.

1 Like

That is a great way of putting it. Okay, that’s clarifying for me.

1 Like

This may be trivial but your avatar has changed.