The Feel of Endings

questions
#1

Soooo, I’m looking at possible endings

  1. Success Good = Happy Ending
  2. Success Bad = Personal Tragedy
  3. Failure Good = Personal Triumph
  4. Failure Bad = Tragedy

Will the audience always feel bad/sad for the character/story if it’s number 2?

For example if the story goal is to get a bunch of kidnapped kids home and that’s successful, BUT the hero also loses his life in the process as a necessary sacrifice?

I mean I might be getting bent over the meaning of the word Tragedy. Anyway, thoughts?

Or can #2 “feel” the same as #3. Still satisfying and even though it’s sad.

#2

I suppose it depends on what you mean by “feel bad”. I can’t think of any specific examples, but it seems like there’s lots of episodes of I Love Lucy where things work out for Ricky, Fred, and Ethel (Success) but leave Lucy letting out one of her iconic "Waaahh"s (Bad). Or maybe The Simpsons have some episodes that work out for all but Homer. Maybe we feel bad for the character, but we’re clearly meant to laugh at them as well.

#3

I suspect at least 4 other factors affect the emotional experience:

  1. The relationship story “outcome” (there’s no formal dramatica term for this).
    Imagine the RS story ends in misery, divorce, separation, etc in a success/good movie. No example comes to mind. It’s not a perfect example, but I cry at the end of ET because the RS ends with them being apart even thought it’s a success/good ending. I could imagine a movie that is the opposite–feeling relatively fine because of a RS outcome of “at least we still have each other” even though it’s a failure/bad.

  2. The story cost (the formal dramatica term or just informal “bad things endured”). See “The Force Awakens” or “The Bourne Supremacy.” The counterpart (i.e. “positives” that temper a failure ending) is story dividends.

  3. Your interpretation of the MC’s “being a good place.” An awful MC may end in a good place. See “Nightcrawler” and “House of Yes.” A “good” outcome for Lou is awful to me because it is unjust. Vice versa for an awful MC who ends in a bad place–I couldn’t be happier that he got his just desserts. Perhaps “Death Proof.”

  4. Similarly, your interpretation of the story goal. An awful story goal may have been achieved. So, a “success” outcome can be awful because the goal itself is awful and/or because the method is awful. Vice versa can be true–it can be great to me when a protagonist fails to achieve an awful goal. Perhaps “Michael Clayton.”

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#4

I think there will always be some angst, regret or “bad feelings” that you (as Audience) are left with after experiencing a Success/Bad story that manages to convey its message.

However, I think we can shift our perspective on those feelings, especially when the story makes clear that the Goal was a good thing. Pick some Success/Bad stories that you know well and think about how you feel at the end … here’s a couple of mine:

  • The Terminator – I’m happy they stopped the Terminator and that the future savior will be born, but sad for Sarah Connor that her life has to suck so bad to make it happen. I can feel the weight of that burden on her, and I know it won’t ever go away.
  • The Usual Suspects – I’m thrilled at how super-cool “Kaiser Solze” was to orchestrate everything the way he did, but also extremely frustrated that the agent came so close but couldn’t catch him.

It’s not so much that I feel both happy and sad at the same time. It’s more like I have to specify which context I’m talking about before I can ask myself how I feel.

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#5

Have you seen La La Land? Clearly a happy ending, a Success/Good, and the RS conflict is resolved – but my God I can still feel an ache in my gut when I think about how things ended for them, what could have been.

#6

This helps a lot guys…thank you so much.

#7

Another example of number four (vice versa), where the protagonist fails to achieve an awful goal, would be the first “How to Train Your Dragon.”

Source: https://narrativefirst.com/articles/when-failure-becomes-a-good-thing

#8

Keep in mind that as far as Dramatica goes, the Judgement is the MC’s judgement, not the audience’s judgement. Seems we are getting two things confused here.

#9

The question was about how a Personal Tragedy (Success/Bad) feels to the Audience, so I think we’ve been mostly on point. You’re right we need to be careful to keep the difference in mind though!

#10

Diane, I just realized that this example doesn’t really contain anything that would suggest a Bad Judgment. If the hero felt it was a necessary sacrifice, and isn’t left with regret or angst, it’s probably just a high Cost rather than a Bad Judgment (e.g. Braveheart).

On the other hand, if the hero’s personal issues were say about never being able to spend enough time with his family, and during the whole kidnapping case he keeps phoning home, apologizing for not being there, promising he’ll make his kid’s birthday party, but then doesn’t make it because he sacrifices himself … that could definitely be a Personal Tragedy.

Although I was asserting in my previous post that you can usually sense the Judgment directly, the real objective test is whether the MC resolved their personal problems.

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