The Noob's complaint

#1

There’s a lot of theory in Dramatica, but a lot of it I’ve only been able to pick up here and there whenever an expert posts. Frankly, that’s terrible Knowledge Management. I’m not going to debate about this. It is terrible knowledge management, period.
This theoretical stuff needs to be more accessible. What Y depends on X and what is the function which relates them? What, for example, gets removed (and why) from the set of remaining story forms when Resolve is set to Steadfast or Change?

The idea that I shouldn’t worry about the theory is something that I fully don’t agree with either. If I’ve got a story form which is close, but not quite right, to what I want, then I want to understand the theory well enough that I know where my degrees of freedom are. Maybe the story form can be improved if the IC Response is changed (and, due to the story, I’m rather ambivalent about whether I use IC Response X or IC Response Y) and changing IC Response ends up changing certain other attributes to things I much more approve of.

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#2

Have you tried using the theme browser to storyform? I think you will quickly get the hang of what affects what, for the important stuff anyway. (Signposts will likely always remain a mystery. That’s ok.)

To speed things up for you:

  • Notice how placement within quad (top right, lower left etc.) is important. e.g. compare MC Issue with IC Issue, and OS Issue with RS Issue.
  • Notice that the MC & OS throughlines are sort of in the driver’s seat – their Problem quad is always the quad within their Issue. While the IC and RS Problem quads are only sometimes within their Issue – usually not.
  • The Changed character (MC or IC) shares the Problem/Solution with the OS. The Steadfast character shares the Symptom/Response with the OS.
  • If the Outcome is Failure, the RS shares the Problem/Solution with the OS. If it’s Success, the RS shares the Symptom/Response with the OS.

Keep in mind that some of the theory is intellectual capital. In fact, I was only comfortable sharing the above because I’ve seen it shared before. (I hope I didn’t overstep.)

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#3

I think Dramatica is in a weird place–half scientific theory (which by rights should be 100% transparent so that other theorists can build upon it) and half commercial product (which is intentionally obscured so as to maintain a trade secret). I’ve been able to reverse-engineer just about everything except for the Act order, which is would require a lot more work than I have the tine or inclination to tease out.

#4

A writer finishing a story has always been the goal of Screenwriter and Dramatica. Way back when with Dramatica Pro v.1.6, the marketers and software creators were pretty clear about some theory not making it into the software, so as to not bog down the writers.

#5

Dramatica is inherently complex. It’s not as simple as reading Save the Cat! or watching yet another pointless YouTube video about how everything is a Hero’s Journey remix.

Melanie and Chris have posted more than enough over the past twenty years to describe how the theory works. If someone is interested, the resources are already there to learn all there is to know about the theory. It simply requires dedicated study and persistence.

@actingpower doesn’t have the “time or inclination” to tease out the specifics of the theory. If you do, you’ll find more than enough opportunities for assistance.

Do you have specific questions that we can help you out with?

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#6

I know they have. That’s what got me to post this. They put the information out there in the publc. That’s why I’m not treating it like a trade secret. But, given that the information is out there in the public, it should be better organized.

#7

Do you have any specific suggestions? This really isn’t a complaint board.

#8

There is an organization via different options to internalize the theory. I learned a great deal by hiring a Dramatica consultant (one not posting on this board) to read some short stories I had completed and to analyze them, as well as a novel in progress.

Another thing that helped in an outstanding way was to attend three weekend workshops in the 90’s (many months to a year apart) held in Burbank. I flew in from another state and took the husband the second time. He knew nothing about it, but was impressed and understood more than I at that time, at the end. I cannot recommend the weekend workshops enough. One person, a professional writer who was attending, told me at the lobby water fountain during a break that he never used the software but used the theory. So, there those that learn via these types of day-long sessions.

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#9

@YellowSuspenders have you read the theory book? I think it’s pretty much all there, though there certainly are clarifications and new understandings that you get from the boards. (I know the book is available online, but I just purchased a used paperback – much easier to reference).

The problem is that there’s so much there that it’s like drinking from a firehose. I don’t know how anyone could fix that – Chris and Melanie have created a pretty comprehensive theory of story.

For me, as soon as I understand one point I realize I’ve forgotten or still not quite understood another. I don’t think that’s a knowledge management issue, it’s just a function of the breadth of what we’re trying to look at.

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#10

One of the things I’d like to see at the very least is a list of all the transforms which exist and have been publicly identified by Melanie, Chris, or another expert and why they exist.

#11

I feel you.

I too was at a spot where the theory was so captivating that it kept me curious and interested, but I was also frustrated because the theory’s application is a different ball game. For that, I took the plunge - similar to @Prish - and worked with consultant expert @jhull. Though I’ve had to break the consultation into pieces time-wise and budget-wise, my goodness, what a difference it has made! I feel far more confident in applying the theory and am extra excited to have a firm handle of at least a chunk of it. I’m making progress instead of spinning my wheels.

Practice, practice, practice with what you have grasped - is my advice.

If you can’t afford a consultant at the moment, @jhull has a whole lot of excellent material on his NarrativeFirst website which gives practical application guidance. The podcasts are really helpful too. I know it’s a lot of time but the satisfaction you will get from applying the elements more smoothly will alleviate the frustration. (Who knew I’d be saying this 5 months on!!)

If I had to add in a gripe, which might be what you too have, it would be that I wish the Dramatica developers would just stick to one grouping of terminology. I know we have the option to change the preferences in the software from the old terms to the newest terms but honestly, it doesn’t really matter what the terms are, IMO. Why? The terms are anchors.

Having said that, some terms do need to clarification, lol!! Though there’s the forum dictionary, the definitions are overly wordy. It’s easy to get lost in the explanation of the definition and come away still not getting it. Another difficulty is when the elements are in the negative. Boy, those words can be a total stumbling block. A simple explanation of each element in the negative would be ideal. Indeed, a simple explanation for all the elements would be amazing!

Fortunately, help will soon be at hand via The Atomizer. I believe @jhull has that very goal on his To Do list.

Ultimately, I’ve come to see Dramatica as an evolving structure of story, much more enriching to use than the simple Hero’s Journey structure.

Hope that helps!!

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