I was just playing around - and practicing - for my own pleasure. As far as I’m concerned, it’s your story 
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Actually this is already leading to great process questions.
Greg, you said you used random gists. Did you make any storyform choices to start? (e.g. Physics makes a lot of sense for this story, even though the idea is just bare bones).
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No. In fact,I started to go with Psychology and Conceptualizing and decided last second to switch to something else. I picked randomly but it definitely felt like you’d already described Learning, so I pretty much just used what you had for that description. I still planned to run it through the otherDomains later, if you’re cool with it. Since Whitepaws did Psychology, maybe I’ll try Mind or Universe later.
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Yeah, that was why I asked! It seemed to fit right in.
Definitely!
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I suppose I’ll admit that at the problem level I went with reduction because it sounded like killing someone and already seemed to fit. When I do the next one I’m going to try to go for the more difficult elements. I think we’ll necessarily see more story being created that way. Since the story description sounds so much like Physics, it’s easy to use what was already there as both conflict and SOC (source of conflict), but using Mind processes as the SOC means we’ll probably see ideas being added that you didn’t describe but that hopefully still feel like they fit with the story just fine. Like the part about arresting criminals. You didn’t offer that part, but from my side that sounded like it fit right in, or could depending on the story.
As a side note to this, the point of starting with Conflict is that, as jhull and chuntley have pointed out before, you can use any storyform to get to that conflict. There is no wrong answer. So instead of spending countless hours analyzing an idea and looking over dozens of storyforms for the one element that just doesn’t work for this story and becoming frustrated by not being able to find the right form, you can put everything you want in the storyform first, and literally make your storyform work first try.
I won’t say this is a perfect method by any means. It may still be difficult to figure out things like benchmarks or prereqs, or whatever, but for me starting with conflict and adding SOC is way easier than trying to suss out exactly the right SOC and then figuring out exactly what conflict that would lead to. The biggest problem I see with this method as far as not being able to use any random storyform is that I have to be willing to accept the SOC into my story (arresting criminals? In this story? Sure, why not-or no, better use a different gist). But thats fine with me. I can use all my creative efforts thinking up conflict and then the gists are automatically fleshing out the story for me.
I’d also probably wait until I have OS and MC fleshed out before deciding if I wanted Success or Failure or Good or Bad. I may not know what I want to say going into it, but once I know what everyone is having problems with, I should be able to form an opinion on it.
I said something to you once about building an idea (starting with SOC and adding conflict) or analyzing an idea (starting with conflict and following back to SOC), but this method is sort of a combo-building backward from conflict.
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So I was just going to respond half-skeptically to this because in the difficulties I’ve had in my current project (which you and Mike have helped on). I started that story almost exactly a year ago in preparation for Nano using Jim’s quick nano method and playground exercises. I chose the storyform I did because the gist/storytelling could be easily tweaked to fit into this dystopian world I was already creating (and using some of the same characters).
As you know, after the first draft (well, call it draft zero), I realized the storyform wasn’t working for the story I wanted to tell and I switched things up.
But now that I write this, I wonder if my problem was more that I failed to adequately encode SOC into the initial storyform. I wonder if the result would be different now that I have more experience with Dramatica.
Maybe this one is different because I’m starting from more from a high concept that’s my own idea (rather than just a world).
It’s a great experiment anyway.
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So I used Mind for this one. I thought for just a second or two about which about which Concern I most wanted to use. When I decided that Preconscious was the last Concern I would want to try to fit this story into, i selected that as the Concern.
The Issue and Problem (Confidence and Test) were selected randomly.
Domain
Considering somethig leads to foreign agents enacting a plan to attack the city.
-considering an agreement that would place heavy penalties on an already over burdened nation leads to foreign agents enacting a plan to attack the city.
Concern
Getting spooked has the burglars stumbling into a plot to shut down the grid and crossing paths with secret agents.
-while hacking into the city’s electric utility servers, a pair of burglars is spooked by some unusual activity. They try to cover their tracks but this actually gets them noticed by the foreign agents that were also hacking into the servers.
Issue
Having pluck causes the burglars to struggle with what to do–incriminate themselves or let the foreign agents shut down the grid.
-having the (plucky) confidence that they will have free reign to burglarize in a blacked out city has the burglars struggling with whether to stop the agents-thus incriminating themselves but also possibly saving them from the agents who are no doubt out to kill them-or let the agents do their thing until they’ve had a chance to hit all the best houses.
Problem
Failing someone’s test has burglars and foreign agents leaving a trail of chaos as they chase each other through the blacked out city.
-this ones a bit tougher. But I’m going to say something like being driven by his failure to show his ex wife that he could be a good person has the burglar in charge trying to catch the foreign agents at the same time that the foreign agents are trying to kill them. These attempts leave a trail of chaos, etc.
I don’t really care for the last one, so I’d pick something else if I were actually writing it. But the important part is I think it could work, even if it needs a bit more tweaking.
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Wow, yeah, that’s awesome. I was pretty convinced that Mind wouldn’t work for this at all but I could see writing that story!
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Okay just for fun I tried to give the three examples a little treatment. Really interesting how unique the Mind one felt and how cool it was at the top (though I didn’t like the bottom illustrations as much). I could see all three of these stories work.
OS Physics/Learning (Greg)
When the FBI accelerates its efforts to arrest a suspected foreign agent, the agent’s government enacts a plan to attack the Eastern Interconnection and black out the half of the United States. Before the plan can take effect, however, it’s discovered by a team of burglars who have been hacking into electric utility servers to determine when wealthy homeowners are on vacation so they can rob their homes.
The burglars realize they’re in over their heads.
Determining what the foreign agents are doing and what they might do to the burglars if they get caught has the burglars fighting with each other over whether to continue their own schemes and leave the foreign agents alone or to incriminate themselves in order to protect the country.
Both the agents and the burglars are driven to kill each other to stop the other and protect themselves. As the lights go out, the burglars must do anything they can to escape through the city, even though it means creating lots of additional chaos, committing more crimes, being in more danger.
OS Psychology/Conceiving/Permission/Acceptance (whitepaws)
A team of burglars hacks into a city’s electric utility servers and gets data that allows them to determine when wealthy homeowners are on vacation so they can rob their homes.
When they accidentally uncover a foreign government plan to also hack the utility, they consider going to the police; before they can, however, the foreign agents devise a way to control the burglars by labelling them as terrorists who are enacting a plan to attack the city (false flag).
The burglars catch onto the agents’ plan to paint them as terrorists when the burglars stumble into the foreign agents’ plot to shut down the grid and cross paths with secret agents.
One burglar is blackmailed to be a double agent; he injects confusion into the group of burglars and this causes the other burglars to struggle with what how to do next–go public, incriminate themselves or let the foreign agents shut down the grid.
Most of the burglars and agents accept that violence is inevitable no matter what which causes the burglars and foreign agents to leave a trail of chaos as they chase each other through the blacked out city.
OS Mind/Preconscious/Confidence/Test (Greg)
As the U.S. government considers placing heavy sanctions on an already overburdened foreign nation, that nation decides to execute a pre-emptive strike by bringing down the Eastern Interconnection and blacking out half of the United States.
Meanwhile a team of burglars that’s been hacking into a city’s electric utility servers to determine when wealthy homeowners are on vacation so they can rob their homes gets spooked when they stumble onto some unusual activity. They decide they must shut down their operations and flee, but trying to cover their tracks actually gets them noticed by the foreign agents that were also hacking into the servers.
Having the (plucky) confidence that they will have free reign to burglarize in a blacked out city has the burglars struggling with whether to stop the agents-thus incriminating themselves but also possibly saving them from the agents who are no doubt out to kill them-or let the agents do their thing until they’ve had a chance to hit all the best houses.
Most of the burglars decide to take their chances and keep stealing in the blacked out city. The leader though, is driven by his failure to show his ex wife that he can be a good person so he tires to catch the foreign agents at the same time that the foreign agents are trying to kill them. These attempts leave a trail of chaos, etc.
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Those were a bit harder and i got a bit lazy. Started to switch but decided it was okay to use what I had because, even though the illustrations aren’t great, I think they still show how that method works and shows that it’s okay to switch to a different or more interesting gist or element and the form will still work.
And feel free to use any of the stuff I offered if you end up writing it, though I bet you could come up with better.
As a final note, this post from Armando seems to go along with this thread pretty well:
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Yeah, that’s a pretty cool takeaway.
Yes! I thought that was really interesting. I think your exercise here proves this point.
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I would totally read that second story.
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This is an awesome way to do things! I think it might also be a good way to generate something from a random story form, too!
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I love this idea, but how do you know what parts of an idea to assign to which level? Like the town attacked by werewolves does sound general enough to be in Domain, but how do you assign the more specific stuff?
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The source of conflict and the conflict are two different things. The storyform is about the source of conflict, so that’s the one that needs to be at the right level. The conflict can be anywhere.
Ex. The Physics of building a bridge leads a town to be attacked by werewolves. The plot to obtain the moonstone leads a town to be attacked by werewolves. A towns self interest in finding a shorter trade route leads them to be attacked by werewolves. The townspeople’s drive to pursue the killer leads a town to be attacked by werewolves.
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So every part of the throughline is “(item) leads to the town being attacked by werewolves”? Are the killer, trade route, and moonstone just random, seemingly disconnected examples, or would the author have those in mind and assign them to whatever fit the most?
Is this a separate way of thinking of things from asking “why is this a conflict?”
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No. You mentioned that being attacked by werewolves sounded general enough for Domain and asked about more specific stuff. The throughline I gave was just showing that it doesn’t matter where the conflict of “attacked by werewolves” goes. In an actual story, I wouldn’t use the same conflict for every level.
No. In the example above, it’s saying Physics, Obtaining, Self-Interest and Pursuit are all problematic in that they all lead to werewolf attacks. But again, in an actual story, they should all probably lead to various types of conflict…like being attacked by vampires!
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Ok. I was wondering how an author takes a handful of conflict ideas and assigns them to which level.
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However you want … whatever makes the most sense for your story.
If the conflict is the smoke, Dramatica tells you what’s causing it (the fire), but it doesn’t restrict you in any way as to what the smoke looks like, which direction it blows in, what shape it takes, etc. All of that is storytelling.
Keep in mind that in an actual story there are a lot of feedback loops, though. For example, the Physics of building a bridge causes werewolf attacks because they’re logging in the forbidden forest where the werewolves live. Now Self-interested parties begin to wonder if other legends about the forest are true and subvert the werewolf peace mission in order to Pursue the fabled lost treasure of the silver unicorn…
So the smoke from one fire often drives characters to start similar, related (by the storyform) fires. In my experience this happens naturally, as long as you remember to view your story points not just as sources of conflict but as drives.
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This reminded me of the Story Embroidery threads I’ve see around the forum. It might be interesting to do one of those using this method.
You know, after NaNoWriMo…
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