From Conflict to Storyform

Usually when I want to find a storyform, the first thing I do is start trying to decide which story point my idea most seems to represent. So if I want to write a story about a town being attacked by werewolves, I might decide that sounds like an OS Domain of Physics. Then I would put it in my notes like this:

DOMAIN: Physics
A town being attacked by werewolves is the source of the conflict of …?

And then I can’t think of any conflict that being attacked by werewolves would lead to that I want to write about. Because really, being attacked by werewolves just is what I want to write about and saying that werewolf attacks are the source of some other conflict seem to be leading me away from what I want to write. So I’ll move the werewolf part to where the question mark is and then I’ll have something like this:

DOMAIN: an unchosen item
an unchosen item is the source of the conflict of a town being attacked by werewolves.

And now I can put anything and guarantee that I’m going to have a story where I get to write about the werewolf attacks the way I want to. Disbelieving in the wolf god leads a town to be attacked by a werewolf, refusing to offer human sacrifices causes the town to be attacked, being the only town with a ban on silver leads to being attacked.

Anybody else ever start with something like that?

13 Likes

I’ve never tried that, but it does seem to coax the creative juices by leaving it open like that.

4 Likes

No, but I will now!

I see this as really complementing @mlucas “coolness” test (i.e. “is this idea cool? Is it what I want to write?”) and maybe another way to step from that to storyforming.

3 Likes

I’m thinking part of my problem for the longest time was coming up with conflict and trying to force it into the source of conflict spot. And since I’ve discovered that I had that problem, of course I assume everyone else suffers from the same thing! Haha. I think I’ve mentioned this to you before, @lakis, but it would make sense that the stuff I come up with for the story should go into the conflict spot and not the source of conflict spot since the structure is winding the story up and then the story itself is there to show us how the characters are trying to deal with the conflict and solve the problem.

7 Likes

Heh. If the OS is about a town being attacked by werewolves, aren’t you in Situation? Or if it’s about a town-wide feud interrupted by werewolves, you’re into either Fixed Attitude or Manipulation (or whatever the newfangled terms are these days :wink: )

This is a fun approach - I like it!

3 Likes

See, that’s the thing. It depends on what you mean when you say ‘the OS is about’, if ‘being attacked by werewolves’ is the CONFLICT or the SOURCE OF CONFLICT.

If the objective problem is that being attacked by werewolves causes a town to live in fear, you probably have a Universe or Physics problem. If the objective problem is that a towns living in fear causes it to be attacked by werewolves, then you probably have a Mind problem.

4 Likes

I thought it might be neat to run through a throughline with this idea. @lakis, hope you don’t mind that I stole from your post to do this one!


Step 1- the Conflict
I tried to use only what was in Lakis’ story idea for this part.

Domain
An unchosen item leads to foreign agents enacting a plan to attack the city.

Concern
An unchosen item has the burglars stumbling into a plot to shut down the grid and crossing paths with secret agents.

Issue
An unchosen item causes the burglars to struggle with what to do–incriminate themselves or let the foreign agents shut down the grid.

Problem
An unchosen item has burglars and foreign agents leaving a trail of chaos as they chase each other through the blacked out city.


Step 2-The Storyform (or The Source of Conflict)
Just picking random Gists that were not in Lakis’ description of the story.

OS Physics
Domain
Arresting criminals leads to foreign agents enacting a plan to attack the city.
-When the government increases its efforts to arrest Foreign Guy #1, FG1’s government enacts a plan to attack the city.

Concern
Collecting intelligence has the burglars stumbling into a plot to shut down the grid and crossing paths with secret agents.
-Hacking into the city’s utility servers to collect information on houses to burglarize causes the burglars to find themselves mixed up in a foreign governments plot to shut down the grid and has them crossing paths with foreign agents. They are way in over their heads.

Issue
Analyzing the competition causes the burglars to struggle with what to do–incriminate themselves or let the foreign agents shut down the grid.
-Determining what the foreign agents are doing and what they might do to the burglars if they get caught has the burglars fighting with each other over whether to continue their own schemes and leave the foreign agents alone or to incriminate themselves in order to protect the city.

Problem
Needing someone to be reduced has burglars and foreign agents leaving a trail of chaos as they chase each other through the blacked out city.
-With both foreign agents and burglars driven to kill each other to stop the other and protect themselves, the burglars must do anything they can to escape through the city, even though it means creating lots of additional chaos, committing more crimes, being in more danger, etc.


So that didn’t take long at all and I think it worked great. Maybe I’ll try putting it in the other three domains tomorrow and see what happens.

4 Likes

This is like reverse engineering a story!

It must also be possible to use your method for the signposts too - particularly if you already have an idea of what you want some scenes to be.

3 Likes

I tried my hand at a version of the @Lakis story in Manipulation:

Domain: Manipulation
Coming up with a way to control the burglars leads to foreign agents labelling the burglars as terrorists who are enacting a plan to attack the city (false flag).

Concern : Conceiving an idea
The burglars catch onto the agents’ plan to paint them as terrorists when the burglars stumble into the foreign agents’ plot to shut down the grid and cross paths with secret agents.

Issue : Permission
One burglar is blackmailed to be a double agent who injects confusion into the group of burlgars and this causes the other burglars to struggle with what how to do next–go public, incriminate themselves or let the foreign agents shut down the grid.

Problem : Acceptance
Most of the burglars and agents accept that violence is inevitable no matter what which causes the burglars and foreign agents to leave a trail of chaos as they chase each other through the blacked out city.

4 Likes

@whitepaws @Greg This is fantastic! I hope it’s okay if I steal back all of these great ideas :grin:

Now of course I have to decide if the Domain should by Physics or Psychology (which is always my dilemma).

I’ve got a fair amount on my plate today but I’ll see if I take a spin at this approach this afternoon.

3 Likes

I was just playing around - and practicing - for my own pleasure. As far as I’m concerned, it’s your story :slight_smile:

2 Likes

@whitepaws @Greg

Actually this is already leading to great process questions.

Greg, you said you used random gists. Did you make any storyform choices to start? (e.g. Physics makes a lot of sense for this story, even though the idea is just bare bones).

2 Likes

No. In fact,I started to go with Psychology and Conceptualizing and decided last second to switch to something else. I picked randomly but it definitely felt like you’d already described Learning, so I pretty much just used what you had for that description. I still planned to run it through the otherDomains later, if you’re cool with it. Since Whitepaws did Psychology, maybe I’ll try Mind or Universe later.

1 Like

Yeah, that was why I asked! It seemed to fit right in.

Definitely!

1 Like

I suppose I’ll admit that at the problem level I went with reduction because it sounded like killing someone and already seemed to fit. When I do the next one I’m going to try to go for the more difficult elements. I think we’ll necessarily see more story being created that way. Since the story description sounds so much like Physics, it’s easy to use what was already there as both conflict and SOC (source of conflict), but using Mind processes as the SOC means we’ll probably see ideas being added that you didn’t describe but that hopefully still feel like they fit with the story just fine. Like the part about arresting criminals. You didn’t offer that part, but from my side that sounded like it fit right in, or could depending on the story.

As a side note to this, the point of starting with Conflict is that, as jhull and chuntley have pointed out before, you can use any storyform to get to that conflict. There is no wrong answer. So instead of spending countless hours analyzing an idea and looking over dozens of storyforms for the one element that just doesn’t work for this story and becoming frustrated by not being able to find the right form, you can put everything you want in the storyform first, and literally make your storyform work first try.

I won’t say this is a perfect method by any means. It may still be difficult to figure out things like benchmarks or prereqs, or whatever, but for me starting with conflict and adding SOC is way easier than trying to suss out exactly the right SOC and then figuring out exactly what conflict that would lead to. The biggest problem I see with this method as far as not being able to use any random storyform is that I have to be willing to accept the SOC into my story (arresting criminals? In this story? Sure, why not-or no, better use a different gist). But thats fine with me. I can use all my creative efforts thinking up conflict and then the gists are automatically fleshing out the story for me.

I’d also probably wait until I have OS and MC fleshed out before deciding if I wanted Success or Failure or Good or Bad. I may not know what I want to say going into it, but once I know what everyone is having problems with, I should be able to form an opinion on it.

I said something to you once about building an idea (starting with SOC and adding conflict) or analyzing an idea (starting with conflict and following back to SOC), but this method is sort of a combo-building backward from conflict.

5 Likes

So I was just going to respond half-skeptically to this because in the difficulties I’ve had in my current project (which you and Mike have helped on). I started that story almost exactly a year ago in preparation for Nano using Jim’s quick nano method and playground exercises. I chose the storyform I did because the gist/storytelling could be easily tweaked to fit into this dystopian world I was already creating (and using some of the same characters).

As you know, after the first draft (well, call it draft zero), I realized the storyform wasn’t working for the story I wanted to tell and I switched things up.

But now that I write this, I wonder if my problem was more that I failed to adequately encode SOC into the initial storyform. I wonder if the result would be different now that I have more experience with Dramatica.

Maybe this one is different because I’m starting from more from a high concept that’s my own idea (rather than just a world).

It’s a great experiment anyway.

1 Like

So I used Mind for this one. I thought for just a second or two about which about which Concern I most wanted to use. When I decided that Preconscious was the last Concern I would want to try to fit this story into, i selected that as the Concern.
The Issue and Problem (Confidence and Test) were selected randomly.

Domain
Considering somethig leads to foreign agents enacting a plan to attack the city.
-considering an agreement that would place heavy penalties on an already over burdened nation leads to foreign agents enacting a plan to attack the city.

Concern
Getting spooked has the burglars stumbling into a plot to shut down the grid and crossing paths with secret agents.
-while hacking into the city’s electric utility servers, a pair of burglars is spooked by some unusual activity. They try to cover their tracks but this actually gets them noticed by the foreign agents that were also hacking into the servers.

Issue
Having pluck causes the burglars to struggle with what to do–incriminate themselves or let the foreign agents shut down the grid.
-having the (plucky) confidence that they will have free reign to burglarize in a blacked out city has the burglars struggling with whether to stop the agents-thus incriminating themselves but also possibly saving them from the agents who are no doubt out to kill them-or let the agents do their thing until they’ve had a chance to hit all the best houses.

Problem
Failing someone’s test has burglars and foreign agents leaving a trail of chaos as they chase each other through the blacked out city.
-this ones a bit tougher. But I’m going to say something like being driven by his failure to show his ex wife that he could be a good person has the burglar in charge trying to catch the foreign agents at the same time that the foreign agents are trying to kill them. These attempts leave a trail of chaos, etc.

I don’t really care for the last one, so I’d pick something else if I were actually writing it. But the important part is I think it could work, even if it needs a bit more tweaking.

3 Likes

Wow, yeah, that’s awesome. I was pretty convinced that Mind wouldn’t work for this at all but I could see writing that story!

3 Likes

Okay just for fun I tried to give the three examples a little treatment. Really interesting how unique the Mind one felt and how cool it was at the top (though I didn’t like the bottom illustrations as much). I could see all three of these stories work.

OS Physics/Learning (Greg)

When the FBI accelerates its efforts to arrest a suspected foreign agent, the agent’s government enacts a plan to attack the Eastern Interconnection and black out the half of the United States. Before the plan can take effect, however, it’s discovered by a team of burglars who have been hacking into electric utility servers to determine when wealthy homeowners are on vacation so they can rob their homes.

The burglars realize they’re in over their heads.

Determining what the foreign agents are doing and what they might do to the burglars if they get caught has the burglars fighting with each other over whether to continue their own schemes and leave the foreign agents alone or to incriminate themselves in order to protect the country.

Both the agents and the burglars are driven to kill each other to stop the other and protect themselves. As the lights go out, the burglars must do anything they can to escape through the city, even though it means creating lots of additional chaos, committing more crimes, being in more danger.

OS Psychology/Conceiving/Permission/Acceptance (whitepaws)

A team of burglars hacks into a city’s electric utility servers and gets data that allows them to determine when wealthy homeowners are on vacation so they can rob their homes.

When they accidentally uncover a foreign government plan to also hack the utility, they consider going to the police; before they can, however, the foreign agents devise a way to control the burglars by labelling them as terrorists who are enacting a plan to attack the city (false flag).

The burglars catch onto the agents’ plan to paint them as terrorists when the burglars stumble into the foreign agents’ plot to shut down the grid and cross paths with secret agents.

One burglar is blackmailed to be a double agent; he injects confusion into the group of burglars and this causes the other burglars to struggle with what how to do next–go public, incriminate themselves or let the foreign agents shut down the grid.

Most of the burglars and agents accept that violence is inevitable no matter what which causes the burglars and foreign agents to leave a trail of chaos as they chase each other through the blacked out city.

OS Mind/Preconscious/Confidence/Test (Greg)

As the U.S. government considers placing heavy sanctions on an already overburdened foreign nation, that nation decides to execute a pre-emptive strike by bringing down the Eastern Interconnection and blacking out half of the United States.

Meanwhile a team of burglars that’s been hacking into a city’s electric utility servers to determine when wealthy homeowners are on vacation so they can rob their homes gets spooked when they stumble onto some unusual activity. They decide they must shut down their operations and flee, but trying to cover their tracks actually gets them noticed by the foreign agents that were also hacking into the servers.

Having the (plucky) confidence that they will have free reign to burglarize in a blacked out city has the burglars struggling with whether to stop the agents-thus incriminating themselves but also possibly saving them from the agents who are no doubt out to kill them-or let the agents do their thing until they’ve had a chance to hit all the best houses.

Most of the burglars decide to take their chances and keep stealing in the blacked out city. The leader though, is driven by his failure to show his ex wife that he can be a good person so he tires to catch the foreign agents at the same time that the foreign agents are trying to kill them. These attempts leave a trail of chaos, etc.

5 Likes

Those were a bit harder and i got a bit lazy. Started to switch but decided it was okay to use what I had because, even though the illustrations aren’t great, I think they still show how that method works and shows that it’s okay to switch to a different or more interesting gist or element and the form will still work.
And feel free to use any of the stuff I offered if you end up writing it, though I bet you could come up with better.

As a final note, this post from Armando seems to go along with this thread pretty well:

4 Likes