How to make a story form around "People need X" conflict?

writing
#1

I reread this article: https://narrativefirst.com/articles/a-method-for-generating-conflict/

and I’m wondering once you come up with a conflict in the form of “People need X to Z, unless Y”, how do you come up with a story form that says that? Does X correspond to MC Problem or something like that? Is Y the IC Problem or MC Solution?

If I have something like “People need to use emotion to make good decisions, unless emotion clouds the facts”
Is the source of conflict Z (needing to decide something), or X and Y (Emotion and Logic)?

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#2

I’ve been thinking a lot about the nature of conflict lately, and hopefully I’m not alone in feeling frustrated over how to successfully generate it within a story.

For a long time I thought of conflict as a form of arguing, fighting. Then I started to factor in elements of things being thrown out of balance, and needing to be fixed–brought back to equilibrium.

But in the past few weeks, I really came to a slightly different understanding of conflict. Working with Jim through my own novel, it became more and more apparent that I was writing about potential conflict, rather than writing conflict itself.

An epiphany is still on its way, but I found clarity in this thought:

Conflict arises when there is some incongruence.
It’s not that something isn’t compatible or out of place, it’s like what Jim says in that article. There are two truths against each other.

“I’m looking down on Wayne’s basement… only that’s not Wayne’s basement!”

And more to the point, it doesn’t just create conflict for a particular POVs or the Players who represent them… but for the Storymind itself. And for the Audience Mind reading the work.

I’m reminded of that short horror story:

A father passes his son’s bedroom to find him still awake. He sits down, asks the boy what’s wrong.
“There’s a monster under my bed,” the boy says.
“There’s no such thing as monsters, son. Now get back to sleep.”
“No! I can’t! I saw it! It’s there. Under my bed!”
“Would it help if I checked?”
“No! Don’t do that! Daddy, please, I’m scared.”
Confident there are no such thing as monsters, the father reassures his boy. He tucks him in and before leaving the room, he checks under the bed for posterity. But to his surprise, he finds someone hiding beneath on the floor.
It’s his son, who looks up at him, terrified.
“Daddy, help me, there’s a monster in my bed!”

… to me, that describes Conflict.

Something that makes the mind go, What? Wait… no… How can that…? That can’t be… That’s not right… I don’t understand how… etc.

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#3

No matter how much research I do, I still don’t quite understand writing conflict and I don’t know why. I can’t understand how to take a conflict and make a story form from it.

Does something being Wayne’s basement and not Wayne’s basement, or kid on top of and underneath the bed count as conflict? I’d say yes since they can’t both be true at the same time, but reading that article, I thought you weren’t allowed to compare opposites-- like the grape example from the article isn’t about saying “The grape is green” “No, the grape is purple” (two statements that conflict because the grape can’t be both at the same time…assuming a single-colored grape) but rather that the “grape is green” vs “the grape is round” (how those 2 non-opposite things could be a conflict, I don’t understand. Color and shape are both non-conflicting aspects of the same thing, therefore there is nothing to argue about. Where’s the conflict in that?)

Maybe the conflict is that it only appears that there are two instances of the kid in the story example, but in reality there’s one kid and one shapeshifting monster. What would the root Element of the conflict be? Perception?

There must be a formula for taking a conflict and turning it into a piece of story form and vice versa, similar to a premise statement. Or if not a formula, then a question to ask when building a story form, or some example workflows for taking ideas and making conflicts from that, and from those conflicts, story.

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#4

Imagine you have a square peg and a round hole. These are conflicting shapes. There is conflict between them. And every time you try to push the peg into the hole, you end up hurting your hand. Did you hurt your hand because the peg was square or because the hole was round? Or was it because of the relationship between square and round?

Hurting your hand is what I’ve been thinking of as conflict. That a square peg cannot fit into a round hole is what I’ve been calling source of conflict. Deciding to address the problem by finding a round peg, or by finding a square hole, or by…somehow balancing your way out of it is justification. Justification allows you to say it’s not a problem to have a square peg so the source of conflict is the round hole, or it’s not a problem to have a round hole so the source of conflict is the square peg, or its not a problem to have a square peg OR a round hole so the source of conflict trying to put them together but do you know where both of these shapes fit? IN THE FRIKKIN TRASH, that’s where!

Anyway, stories don’t need conflicting shapes. They need conflicting processes. Letting your feelings be your guide and letting logic be your guide in a context where those two do not align are conflicting processes.

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#5

Perhaps those weren’t the best examples. I don’t think it’s about comparing opposites at all. It’s about being incongruent.

I think what you’re describing is the solution to the conflict, not the conflict itself. Maybe there’s one real kid, one monster. Which is which? Who is lying? Is it somehow both? The answer to all that is a solution, not the conflict…

I once bought a ticket for a tour of Oxford on Christmas. But Oxford is closed on Christmas. An explanation exists for how I held the valid ticket in my hand in an abandoned city on Christmas… but that’s not the conflict. That’s the solution.

The conflict is me sitting there looking at a closed Oxford wondering, but I have this valid ticket!

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#6

So, how does one take a “People need X” kind of conflict and extract storyform elements from it and/or use storyform elements to create such a statement?

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#7

Do you have any story in mind yet, or are you starting only with the truisms you’ve already offered?

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#8

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the question, but I’m not sure the one does create a storyform from a source of conflict. The storyform is going to illustrate your narrative argument. Like one of Jim’s Premises.

“You can imagine a new life when you give up seeing something from a particular perspective”

To create a storyform, one must find the true root of the problems as seen from the four main points of view surrounding that indescribable inequity.

As far as needs and wants, I would roughly equate:
Need vs. Want :: Solution vs. Focus & Direction

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#9
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#10

Okay, so I think my understanding was a bit off.
The idea is to create two inequities that exist at the same time, but can’t exist at the same time.

And from what Jim says, this can work at every level. A stand-alone POV, two POVs against each other… anything.

So with…

… that could read as (MC POV) unless (IC POV)
… or (OS) unless (RS)
… or (MC) unless (MC)
… etc

#11

For practice, I wanted to try writing an updated version of an old detective show-- one’s a human, one’s an android. Together, they make a better team than if they worked alone. As something of a theme or conflict, I like the idea of “People need to be different in order to solve problems, unless those differences impede progress.” Who can’t relate to the idea of feeling defective and the pressure to hide and overcome one’s deficiencies but knowing one has value to contribute?

But I don’t know how to express that in a storyform or if I’m trying to cram too many ideas into one thing. I figure if I can come up with the big conflict, then I can figure out the Premise.

#12

I might start by asking questions. Who does ‘people’ refer to? I, THEY, maybe WE? How do they need to be different? Bodily, emotionally, psychologically? Which side will everyone start with? Will I start by being different, or will I start by not impeding progress? From there, will I change or not? Will that be a good thing or bad?

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#13

I’m assuming that first part of the argument represents the MC POV.

#14

So “need to be different” represents the MC. Is the detective Steadfast? Or does he or she change to adopt the “differences impede progress” perspective?

As Greg was saying, I could imagine"need to be different" could be represented by a lot of different story points. I think “need to be different” could be:

Issue: Deficiency, Approach, Repulsion, Attitude, Openness
Problem: Non-accurate, Acceptance, Avoidance, Self Aware, Uncontrolled

Each of those would give very different stories, but I could imagine “need to be different” as part of an illustration for any of them (and others).

So is the problem that the android detective is constantly doing things that are inappropriate (Non-accurate), or that people are repulsed by her (Repulsion), or simply that she is struggling with Acceptance in a human world? Or does she feel like she’s fundamentally lacking something human (Deficiency) and this causes her turmoil?

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#15

I’d say doing things that are inappropriate due to either malfunctions or lack of knowledge/experience is the problem since the detective has to pretend to be human as a test mandated by the lab. The lab thinks people might freak out at the idea of automation. I figured that would all place him under Universe. However, sometimes being Non-Accurate leads to clues, so I’m confused. Maybe it’s needing Acceptance as a person. If I could get the hang of the “People need X” thing, I wonder if I could then figure out how to say something specific.

I don’t know which detective, human or android, should be MC. They would both have strengths and flaws. I lean towards the android as MC since I think that’s an interesting POV and I’d like to see stuff like, say, what if he tries more human stuff like getting a hobby. However, he’s eccentric and leaves an impact on people, so I don’t know if IC is a more appropriate role.

#16

At this point, there is no wrong answer. Take what interests you about the statement “ People need to be different in order to solve problems, unless those differences impede progress” and pick a point of view. If what really interests you is the idea that the Main Character will find itself in an external state of being different, then start there. If you put a pin in that one and know that you will never deviate from that, then you can pull the storyform together around that one bit.

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#17

Yes. 1000%.

A common misunderstanding of Dramatica (and life) is that there is one objective truth. “If I want to write about loyalty, where is that in the Dramatica chart?”

It’s what you want to say ABOUT loyalty that is important, and the PREMISE (storyform) of your story.

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#18

I remember reading in StoryMind (I think) something like starting off with something like “loyalty is good” and going from there, but I don’t know how you’d get to a premise from that (I assume you’ve got to be more specific than “good.” I think the idea was to establish one’s position on a comparison).

I feel like I have something to say, or else why would I be pulled in the directions that I am? Why is it so hard to think of a specific point to make and what questions might one ask to focus those vague directions into a point?

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#19

“Loyalty is good” is a statement. It needs some energy to make it an argument. What makes loyalty good? How do you get from loyalty to good? Will remaining loyal save the country? Will embracing those who are loyal provide a net for when you fall?

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#20

If I’m going for a teamwork thing, maybe it’s something more like "If you start sharing responsibility, you can succeed at solving crimes (Doing)/catching criminals (Obtaining). I think that kind of conflict would be “People need to work together to succeed, unless one works better alone.” That would have the more-experienced human as IC and changing to let his partner take the reins equally. Or is that too RS-like?

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