The story starts AFTER he is transformed. Are the Problems involved subsequent a matter of Changing His Nature or Getting Him to Conceive of Loving Belle?
Also - try looking at other characters - Gaston maybe - are his problems one of Conceiving or of Becoming?
Jim, something has been bugging me about the Becoming Type in this particular instance.
Becoming is definitely a strong candidate for the Story Goal.
But as far as the source of conflict, normally it’s best to see Dramatica items as verbs – they experience conflict from the process of BecomING. However, in this story it seems like – at least for the castle inhabitants – their Becoming trouble is more in the past tense. They’ve BEEN transformed, that’s the source of their problems.
Maybe the source of the conflict for the castle inhabitants (assuming we’re arguing for Becoming – I do like Conceiving too) is best stated as:
a) striving to become (to change back)
b) the transformation becoming permanent (once the last petal falls)
In the 2017 film, the town (with their memory loss & missing loved ones) would fall under b as well.
For Gaston, he was striving to become married to Belle, although that seems a little weak to me. Was he striving to become anything else, or resisting becoming something, etc.? (EDIT: I guess “killing the beast” counts)
I really need to watch the movie again! (@Gregolas, which version did you watch on Netflix the other night? I think we should focus on that…)
Hm… I could almost make more of a case for Conceiving in his case – he gets this idea stuck in his head about marrying Belle – no on else will do. He also can’t quite conceive of who she is e.g. he tries to talk to her about books even though he never reads books.
I think if you try to think of the storyform in more of the “holistic” sense - as if the entire narrative was already finished, and a “thing” that one of those Concerns stands out as what the story was about
The subtext of the narrative.
They don’t explicitly state or work towards this Concern/Goal - but it definitely is the gestalt of what is explored.
And actually Belle’s father is this kooky inventor which causes people to misunderstand him (crazy ideas) and its when he’s off trying to sell his wood-chopping machine that he ends up getting lost and captured by the Beast.
Accidentally read the script for the 2017 movie (haven’t seen it yet). It’s so ridiculously explicit about the Concern…
She’s in the version I watched a couple times. She comes back at the end after the rose petals have all fallen and everyone has become fully inanimate and lifts the spell. Feels like a cheat to me.
I see this too, which is why I’m still leaning toward this quad. But I also largely see the conflict related not to the transforming of the beast to a human,but in getting the beast involved.
-Lumiere- She could be the one!
-Beast(paraphrasing)- I’m a beast! Raaarrgghh!
Though I can see, too, how my version is all conflict brought on by Becoming
I figured, but am having a hard time looking away from that part.[quote=“jhull, post:62, topic:948”]
Are the Problems involved subsequent a matter of Changing His Nature or Getting Him to Conceive of Loving Belle?
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Without the intro, I suppose it looks more like problems of becoming at the source, which is what Dramatica is about. But as stated above, conflict largely comes in the form of ‘maybe she could love you’, so it looks more directly…or maybe I should say more immediately connected to what I’m seeing as Conceiving. [quote=“jhull, post:62, topic:948”]
Gaston maybe - are his problems one of Conceiving or of Becoming?
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I’m still going both ways. Do his problems come from transforming Belle into his wife?
Disney live action, 2017
@Lakis , I feel a bit like I’ve taken over your discussion. My apologies if that’s the case.
That said, can someone point to Belle’s problem of The Future?
Not at all @Gregolas! I really appreciate your engagement and enthusiasm.
Belle - Future: “There must be something more than this provincial town!” & “You may never leave (the castle), you must stay here forever.”
I feel like a kid in a class who just wants the teacher to give him the answers. I thought that the concern was obvious but now I’m questioning myself.
I could tell you everything now, but then how much fun would that be?!
I think your examples of Belle’s Future Concern are great. Tied up in that would be a future with Gaston. And who’s going to take care of my father?
Okay, so MC-Future give us OS-Becoming.
So we can see the potential marriage to Gaston through two lenses: from a “they” lens, the conflict is about “Becoming a Couple” (will they or won’t they?) but from a “I” perspective, it’s “I don’t want this Future”. Does that sound right?
Which is the setup for your typical Romantic Coming-of-Age (or Maturation) narrative.
He locks her up (RS Concern of Obtaining) and has rage issues (IC Concern of Subconscious).
Just to expand on “There must be something more than this provincial town!”:
BELLE
I want adventure in the great wide somewhere
I want it more than I can tell
And for once it might be grand
To have someone understand
I want so much more than
They’ve got planned
Very much looking to the future, and experiencing conflict over the way the provincial town and the people in it are sort of holding her back from that future life she dreams of.
Here are some potential OS Concern Becoming moments, rather explicit:
LUMIÈRE
Another petal fell…
PLUMETTE
Lumière, I grew three more feathers! And I just plucked yesterday.
Lumière moves to help, but his legs stiffen. He holds his flame
to his knee like a heating pad.
LUMIÈRE
I know, darling – Ow! I’m getting more metallic every day.
Suddenly, Cogsworth begins making clock sounds.
COGSWORTH
Oh, no! It’s – tick tock! – happening again – cuckoo! Pardon me.
MRS. POTTS
Everyone, calm yourselves. We still have time.
CHIP
Mama, am I ever going to be a boy again?
MRS. POTTS
Yes, Chip. You’ll have your days in the sun again. You just leave it to me.
Some of the above could maybe be Forewarnings of Progress or something. But the stuff with Chip’s desire to be(come) a boy again and Mrs. Potts’ promise, seems rather powerful, getting to the heart of the conflict.
@Gregolas Are you sold? Are we ready to move onto the Issues?
Mmmm, close but not entirely. Go ahead with the Issues, though.
I could certainly see Preconception for Belle’s issue… “She really is a funny girl that Belle!” And the NASTY HEADMASTER: “Teaching another girl to read? Isn’t one enough?”
For the OS, I think I’d pick Obligation, because Gaston keeps trying to marry Belle (marriage = promise, obligation). And also because it feels like by being so mean to the Enchantress they sort of failed in their obligations as human beings (thus cursed to be other than human).
The whole “Be Our Guest” thing could be Obligation also – it’s almost comical how badly the Beast fails on his obligations as a host, so the castlefolk do their utmost to make up for it and fulfil those obligations. Even the “is the Beast her jailer or her host?” conflict is kind of obligation.
Open to other ideas though. Obligation is my favourite Variation so I might be focusing on it too much, and I can certainly see some Responsibility in parts too.
Obligation was my first instinct because of the way in which Belle becomes the Beast’s prisoner – voluntarily taking on the obligation to stay there in return for setting her father free. Later when he frightens her, she shouts at him – “promise or no promise, I’m leaving!”
I love your other examples too, especially the “Be Our Guest” one. I’m not totally solid on this though – I could entertain other issues as well.
I know it’s possible for an IC to have storypoints that are attributed to him/her that are illustrated in how others react more that the behavior of the character. Is the same thing true of the MC? Because in that case, your examples totally make sense. I would add that maybe she has preconceptions about the town (justified or not) that cause personal conflict e.g. “ugh, I have to get out of this provincial town” and “I could never marry someone like Gaston”.
Then we would have Denial for the Beast. “The refusal to admit to oneself or others that a previously held view is no longer true.” Would that apply to his refusal to give up the belief that he’s unlovable? But I could also see Closure here…
Oh definitely – she can experience personal conflict from her own preconceptions or someone else’s. All that matters is the preonception, and that it’s related to her personal perspective.
Your illustrations are great too – preconceptions can be problematic even when they’re valid!
Denial for the Beast is really great. He denies that anyone could love him, as you said. The enchantress denied him his humanity because he denied her any human kindness. He hates himself so much that he tries to embrace his Beast-ness, renouncing or denying his own humanity (or trying to). He influences Belle by denying her freedom, and then he even has this huge moment where just as she’s falling in love with him, he lets her go (no longer denying her freedom, but denying himself her love).