Defining the OS 'State' and Goal of Preconscious

questions
#1

I have a story that I’ve been trying and failing to figure out since 2014. Well, ‘story’ is a misnomer. I have key elements I want to use and continue to struggle in working out what the story actually is.

What I absolutely know is that the MC is in Psychology (she hates ‘who she is’ so much that she pretends to be other people), which puts the IC in Activity (which works great, cause it’s a comedy, and I wanted him to be a politician that cannot do anything right – physical comedy is perfect). I’ve flip-flopped on the Driver over the years, and still don’t know if she should be willing or unwilling because I have no idea what the goal is.

The RS is centred around them being divorcees. This one I don’t have a lot of ideas about right now, but I know it’s a growing relationship that ends with them getting together again somehow.

Herein lies my issue. I know what I want to say with the story. The Overall Story is dealing with the British Social Class system. Now, I’m 90% certain that what is in my head is a Fixed Attitude story, but the ‘state’ domains are the two I struggle with most.

I say I’m 90% certain because, in my head, I can envision the multitude of problematic attitudes about taxes/the poor/the rich/Brexit/the homeless/young people/Brexit/non-white people/Brexit/Brexit/houses/Brexit/interior design/universities/etc. Basically, they all just have their opinions and they want other people to know about them. (Can you tell that I’m very much sick of hearing about something?) And the Issues beneath are perfect – Worth/Value/Confidence/Worry.

However, the point I’m trying to make is that it’s an unfair system that depends on where you’re from/your identity/your family/your birthplace/race, etc. Which sounds a lot of Situation-based topics. So, how do I define the difference between the two? It feels like a chicken and egg situation.

So, I tried to look at Growth. My MC is a change character (she drops the characters and accepts herself, rather than trying to ‘fit in’), and it feels VERY strongly like a ‘stop’ story – she’s the one making the problems worse. So, given my thematics, that puts the goal in ‘Preconscious’, which I just can’t seem to envision. It seems too nebulous to work out (“To respond as an upper class person”? “To curb the impulses of the working class?”). I much prefer the Story Goal in Progress (“To move up in the class system”), but the issues beneath that just don’t feel right…

This is the culmination of 4 years of frustrating starts-and-stops, so if anyone has any tips or wants anything clarified, I’d greatly appreciate it.

#2

One of the cool things that I like about Dramatica is that there are so many different ways to make a story form.

Your post above is full of comments like

I’d like you to try an experiment. Forget everything you know about Dramatica terminology and the chessboard and all of that. If you have to, work on another story for awhile. I really want you to do the following with as pure a mind as you can get.

With Dramatica closed, identify the four thoroughlines. Break each through line into its own three act play. Write a description of the most significant events in each of the three traditional acts for each through line. Now, do the same thing, only instead of writing the description of the most significant events, write a description of where things stand between each act (in other words, the signposts). This shouldn’t be an exhaustive description, just focus on what is most significant and try to be terse.

Now, open Dramatica. Go to the plot progression chart. In each signpost and each journey copy and paste what you wrote in the paragraph proceeding this one.

By this time, you probably know which of the through lines you know the most about for your story. Start there and select (using the various drop down menus on the plot progression chart) the quality which best captures what you wrote for that signpost.

Basically, the idea is to trust your gut feeling and don’t let Dramatica do your thinking for you. It is a tool. Only the craftsman can decide what he’s making, not the tool.

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#3

(cross-posted with @YellowSuspenders)

Wow, it really sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this … great job so far!

Questions:

  • What format of story do you envision (novel, short story, screenplay…) ?
  • Do you know much about any of the other OS characters? I find sometimes focusing on another character who’s not the MC or IC, can help figure out the OS better.

My gut feel is that the OS Concern is indeed Preconscious, because of how you felt about the MC Stop and also because “being divorced from each other” fits Situation really well.

The Goal could be something that the characters themselves don’t know about. For example, even something like, to riff off your own problematic attitude, “to stop being sick of English opinions”. Almost like they can’t live their lives properly because they’re stuck with this problematic response to everyone around them.

I think this can fit Preconscious really well actually. It’s like you’re saying that in order to overcome such unfairness we all need to look at our own attitudes and immediate responses to things, and curb or question them.

I wonder if you considered that the characters might not know about the Goal and aren’t consciously working toward it (though maybe they get a sense of it toward the end), if that would change your mind?

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#4

Could that be mind? Fixed attitude?

#5

Parts of your story have me thinking of the Dudley Moore movie Arthur and the genre of “middle-aged man-child trickster visits towne”

#6

I’m absolutely gonna try this! For now, I’ve moved on to another project that I feel a little more comfortable with. I’m gonna come back to it and when I do, I’ll try this exercise. Sounds interesting.

I haven’t seen Arthur (I saw the, um, “remake”… :grimacing:) so I’m not sure how similar they are. I’ll check it out!

#7

Thank you, Mike. It’s the end result of four years of failed efforts and a lot of built-up anger against the system. :joy:

Screenplay.

Totally. In all of the versions, there have only been a handful of characters that have ‘stuck’, and I’ll describe them in their objective roles. There’s the TV Chef (a beloved figure whose whole nature is about ‘making things equal’), the Politician (a public laughing stock that’s focused on overhauling the system), the Socialite (a jealous woman that only really cares for her own kind), the Businesswoman (a rational figure that really has no interest in the ‘labels’) and the Baroness (a wealthy gossip that thrives on the indulgences of her lifestyle). There were a couple others, but they come and go depending on the driver.

I think you might be right on this. Jim mentioned the goal of Coco as being a mostly-unknown goal, and I completely forgot about that (I do this often – forgetting helps me remember, apparently. Except, you know, for when it doesn’t). It might actually work out better that way. I like this idea:

It’s like someone’s simplified my life into one sentence. I’m just kidding (mostly). But it is a great idea, that everyone is impulsively rejecting these differing opinions, and they have to try and come to terms with that (and they don’t, cause it’s a Failure story). I’m not sure it’s the Goal I’m looking for, though. I’ll have to think of what exactly I’m looking for.

#8

I considered that very briefly, but her attitude isn’t really a problem. In fact, her attitude fits in with many of those around her, so I think @mlucas is right and it probably is an OS in Fixed Attitude. Her personal issue is that she doesn’t believe she can be successful unless she’s ‘being’ someone else, crafting characters and giving fake names/stories to impress people (which is an outright Manipulation, as well as a problematic Psychology).

#9

Have you written a polished/perfect scene? Try one with your concept in mind. Try the first scene. Start it with the perfect first paragraph.

I’m polishing my first scene and I’m loving it. I made a major decision in this scene and it completely changed my Storyform in the very first chapter. But it excites me so much more. It completely torpedoed my original concept (which I liked)… and now I love it.

Eventually, I think I"m going to post the scene here so folks can help me examine it with PRCO, TKAD, SRCA, PASS concepts… and whatever other Dramatica tools can be used at the elemental level.

Anyway, that’s my suggestion. Write a polished and perfect scene.

Storyforms are like Plato’s forms. They are an idea. That’s all. Stories are objects that can be seen. That’s what you want as a writer.

Everybody has a script or story idea. And they can be good ideas. Few people have a thing as real as a story (or even 1/64th – or whatever – of a Story in the form of a scene).

Write the first scene. Make it perfect. I bet you walk out of that scene a happy man.

#10

I really hope you do as I don’t understand that stuff at all and a good application of it would help immensely.

#11

95% chance sure this is an Overall Story in Psychology.

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#12

@jhull @jhay

Strange. I feel at least that race fits Universe maybe more of those. Or a caste system would fall there as well. Although Fixed Attitude is interesting too. I see Psychology the least. What am I missing?

On the other hand, I just watched most of the Dramatica Ghostbusters analysis and my take away from that is that Situation has clear boundaries. And the lack of clear boundaries for rich, poor, lower class, upper class, etc. might torpedo my interest in labeling it a Situation story.

Maybe it is just too broad. If it were limited to race, perhaps it would be much easier to handle, or rich and poor, or etc. Maybe it should be a series. :wink:

I’m reminded of Trading Places. I wonder what the OS of that classic movie was.

#13

Only if being a member of that race is the source of conflict. “I can’t do this because I’m a Fox” is different than “I can’t do this because those animals fear Foxes”.

Hard to say for sure, but…

Does this character sound like his/her problems come from a static mindset regarding equality, or from the thought processes behind making things equal? Either is possible, but with the info given it sounds more like a process.

Does this character have problems that stem from a static mindset (a love of indulgences), or from a process (thriving on indulgences)?

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#14

Ooh, I have things to think about! Thanks, guys.

Now, this is interesting, and I’m gonna circle back to it. There’s one scene that has been in every version of the story, and it’s the opening. It’s the thing that makes me want to write the story. I’m gonna come back to it in a second. Actually, immediately.

Okay! That’s great! Could you explain how you worked that out, Jim? Might help me identify in future.

I long dismissed psychology for this story, but after @Prish mentioned it a couple days ago, rethought it. My opening scene seems very much a psychology scene (I had assumed that it would be an MC scene): my MC attempts to impress some snobs by hosting a dinner party in a home that isn’t hers, as a person she isn’t, with pre-made food that she bought and lied about cooking. So I can see that being a potential OS (might actually make the writing easier).

Yeah, I didn’t define it too well here. The actual ‘story’ I had in mind isn’t so broad. Half of the things I mentioned would either never come up (I’d die before I wrote ‘Brexit’ into my work) or be touched on briefly. It’s primarily rich and poor/upper class and working class. The race stuff is limited to one (maybe two) characters, but it’s not a major point.

Good question. In the world in which she lives (the ‘rich world’), people don’t want anything to be equal – they just want to live. And when dealing with the politician, he knows that she doesn’t have an interest in making things equal, it’s just part of her image. Think I’ve just confirmed where the problems lie with that last sentence. Definitely a process.

I’m gonna do this one anyway. I don’t know a whole lot about her, other than her approach to this life is very much ‘If you have it, things are better’. But she also greatly likes to stir things up and cause trouble, which would probably cause her more problems and is more in line with a process.

Gonna go think about this. Thanks again, all!

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#15

Now there’s the good stuff!

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#16

Well, it was either Physics or Psychology, as you were splitting the difference between the two:

I imagine if their relationship is about being divorcees and they end up getting together, that the problems in their Relationship would be all about Physics – screwball antics, etc.

But mainly it’s this: Brexit is not a problem of Mind, it’s a problem of Psychology - it’s a way of thinking of the world, of who gets what, and how that gets done, that creates all the problems. Issues of Situations and Circumstances sound like the kind of area you’re trying to explore in the Overall Story.

It’s really really really rare that an Overall Story is in Mind - everyone tries it because they want to be different and to do something that no one else is doing - but often they find themselves trying to force a peg into a square hole.

The second rare one is Universe, but that’s because everybody keeps referring to it as Situation.

When in doubt - Psychology!

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#17

Thank you so much, Jim! That is hugely helpful.

Incidentally, in my earliest notes on this particular story (from 2014), I seem to have scribbled the word “SCREWBALL” and underlined it twice, so I think this might be the right way forward. I think I could also create a more interesting OS with Psychology, and the mistaken identity factoring into that.

I seem to have a really hard time distinguishing OS Mind and Universe stories, so this is as good a time to ask as any. Is there a way to really clearly identify Mind and Psychology when it comes to the OS? I guess a better way to word that is: how do you separate ‘what’ they think from ‘how’ they think?

#18

Just become really familiar with narratives that focus on WHAT people think as being the source of problems for everyone in the story:

  • 12 Angry Men
  • Doubt
  • Zootopia
  • To Kill a Mockingbird
  • A Bronx Tale
  • Hamlet

and contrast those against stories that focus on HOW people think as a problem:

  • Rataouille
  • The Incredibles
  • Like Water for Chocolate
  • A Separation
  • The King’s Speech
  • Ex Machina

Beyond the intellectual understanding of the difference between mindsets and mind-processes, your best bet is to become really familiar with stories in each Domain - actually experience them and start to develop an intuition for where they differ.

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