Group online analysis of A Man For All Seasons

[Prish]

willingness to always "be" whatever is necessary to administer to the plot suggests a Willing Main Character (Tendency)

I'm confused. Jim, can you elaborate?

[mlucas]

I think Jim just meant that More doesn't seem out of place in this story; he forces the plot forward more than being dragged along by circumstances out of his control. If it weren't for having to protect his loved ones, he may have been able to "be" himself into a martyr quite easily.

This Willing Tendency suggests that it's a Decision story, since we've already determined he's a Be-er.

Brant @LunarDynasty if you wanted to move forward while keeping the Action argument in your back pocket, I'd be okay with that. Story Driver isn't impacted by (nor impacts) the rest of the analysis questions, only Signposts, right?

[LunarDynasty]

No need - I'm sold on Decision. Thanks!

Next up is Story Limit. Is it Timelock, or Optionlock?

[mlucas]

Great! This analysis is fun.

I'm sure it's no surprise to suggest Optionlock. In the story the options for not bending to the marriage are slowly whittled away, until the only option that remains besides "bending" is death. Note for a long time More clings to the penultimate option of remaining silent regarding his opposition, until that too is taken away.

[LunarDynasty]

I agree that Optionlock seems the obvious choice. Passage of time is barely noted throughout the story, even when a large span has transpired (More's service as Chancellor, his time in the Tower, etc).

If no one has any objections to the Story Limit, then let's discuss the Outcome.

Does the story end in Success, or Failure?

[Rod]

I'd like to suggest Failure as the outcome. If we say that the OS is "Bending to the marriage." which would imply an OS of Physics and a Goal of Doing, then clearly More failed by not bending to the marriage.

He wavers at the end, but ultimately stands his ground (and gets the axe for it).

[mlucas]

I'm finding the Outcome a tough one to pin down. I think it's because I can't really define the Story Goal.

We agreed on this as the OS Throughline Summary:

Allegiances and loyalties, all centered around the question of Henry's marriage to Anne, his divorce from Catherine, and religious legitimacy. I would describe the OS as "Bending to the Marriage."

I also wrote this, which is basically another way of stating the same thing:

OS Throughline story is: "Ensuring everyone supports the King (in his divorce, new marriage to Anne Boleyn, as head of the Church, etc.)"

But it's a bit tricky to go from OS Throughline summary to Goal, and from there to Outcome. Was the goal preventing everyone from Bending to the Marriage, or ensuring that everyone bends? (EDIT: the neat thing about this story is that because everyone else bends, More becomes the symbolic 'last resistance' to bending / taking the Oath; but the OS is still kind of about everyone's decision to bend, and the why and how of it.)

Or was it more specific, something to do with conscience perhaps, like "trying to get everyone to nail down their opinion based on their own consciences, rather than changing their minds all the time based on which way the wind is blowing". (Not sure if that fits as a Goal,but it was partially informed by the line Brant already quoted, More saying to Roper "We must just pray that when your head's finished turning, your face is to the front again.")

Am I overthinking here? Is there some way to determine Outcome when you don't know the Story Goal?

[jhull]

Am I overthinking here? Is there some way to determine Outcome when you don't know the Story Goal?

How does the story feel at the end? Does it feel like a Triumph? A Personal Tragedy or a Personal Triumph? Or does it feel like a Tragedy?

[LunarDynasty]

Feels like a Personal Triumph to me. Ironically the only one who seems content with his fate is our convicted Main Character:

MORE: [to executioner] Be not afraid of your office. You send me to God.
PRIEST: You're very sure of that, Sir Thomas?
MORE: He will not refuse one who is so blithe to go to Him.

The denouement shows that prominent supporters of the King eventually suffer his wrath and paranoia. More's execution was not enough to legitimize Henry as both church and state, so the heads continue to roll.

So I think it's a Failure / Good story.

[mlucas]

Ah! In overthinking, I was going too much with Logic and not enough with Feeling, LOL.

I agree, it definitely felt like a Personal Triumph. Even without analyzing anything else about the MC Throughline, you can tell that he did what he should to remain true to himself, that his conscience could not have accepted any other way. So definitely Judgement Good there.

And I sort of forgot that Outcome doesn't just tell you whether the Goal was achieved, it also tells you whether the whole OS Throughline's issues were resolved. Just going by feel, they definitely weren't; and the denouement cements that feeling: Failure.

[jhull]

I agree with Personal Triumph for all the reasons listed above.

[Rod]

I suspected failure/good long before we figured out any of the other story points. It's definitely a personal triumph but still leaves us feeling pretty bad, knowing that More died for his convictions. So I guess even Personal Triumph stories can be major bummers...

Failure/Good is my favorite kind of story, so I generally recognize them right away.

[Prish]

Yah, he kept trying to work things out, i.e. telling family members how to act through it and trying to say different things. He finally failed in that. I grew up with his last words asking/joking with the executioner not to cut off his beard, as he turned his head onto the block, because it had done nothing [wrong]. He was an amazing man in that he shared his personal triumph with the world. We may not understand it, but it was rock solid and was real.

[LunarDynasty]

All right! Time for the big question: what is the Overall Story Throughline? So far, Physics (Activity) has been suggested.

I know it's tempting to tackle all four throughlines at once, but try to keep suggestions focused on the OS at first. If we're having trouble with consensus, we can discuss other factors like MC Throughline and MC Growth to help narrow it down.

[Rod]

As mentioned, I feel strongly that the OS is Activity with a Goal of Doing (Bending to the marriage) which puts More squarely in Fixed Attitude, which I think is perfect for this story.

[mlucas]

Hmm, I was actually thinking the Overall Story was in Manipulation (Psychology). Coercing people to take the Oath, breaking people down psychologically (e.g. taking More's books away), Cromwell's scheming on how to convict Thomas More, acting crazy to get what you want (think of the King's erratic behaviour when talking to More). Even the way the King made a huge show of laughing when he stepped in the mud, or took off before the rest of his entourage could join the river-boat, were ways of manipulating his subjects.

And there's manipulation shown in a positive light too -- all of More's speeches to people like Roper, Meg, his wife, etc. trying to influence their way of thinking.

I also think the bending in our "Bending to the marriage" is more of a psychological bending than a physical / external activity.

(Note MC Throughline can still be in Fixed Attitude with OS in Manipulation.)

[Prish]

Wouldn't manipulation/psychology IC throughline contrast well with a Mind/Fixed Attitude MC?

[Prish]

Aren't they all in a situation/universe mess?

[Rod]

Figuring out whether More's Growth is Stop or Start will decide whether we have a Manipulation OS or a Physics OS.

Are there things someone can point to that might suggest Start (or Stop) for More's Growth arc?

Sometimes it's good to let Dramatica pick the Growth, when the Throughline Domains are fairly clear. When they're not, looking for Start or Stop can clear things up quite a bit.

[LunarDynasty]

I think it's Stop, but I'll get to that in a bit -- we have an additional suggestion of Situation for the Overall Story. We should break down whether the Overall Story is focused on a problematic state, or a problematic process, i.e.

• Does conflict arise because something is stuck (state)? Would conflict end if it were un-stuck?
• Does conflict arise because something is changing / ongoing (process)? Would conflict end if it were stopped?