Can an internal OS have an external "surrogate goal" for a clearer climactic event?

writing
#1

I’m trying to wrap my head around writing a fixed attitude OS. I have difficulty making any internal domain OS into a visually compelling story rather than talking heads. I especially find it difficult to communicate a clear, “the overall story is over when either _ happens or it doesn’t.” Is it possible to create an external manifestation of the OS problem and still have an internal OS? I guess I’m asking: what is the threshold for calling it internal rather than external–especially when a very external manifestation of it is happening? How external can I make an internal OS and still call it internal according to Hoyle?

I’m thinking of the climax final competition in Searching for Bobby Fischer, the conspiracy caper in Zootopia, and potentially the pageant in Little Miss Sunshine (though I’m unsure if that OS is internal or not). This kind of “apparent goal” doesn’t replace the related debate, but it certainly makes it more concrete and clearer to follow than, “the story is over when… a fixed attitude disagreement is resolved.”

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#2

Dramatica is content-agnostic, meaning that an OS Activity storyform doesn’t have to be an “action” film, nor OS Mind storyform be a “talking-heads” picture.

The throughlines don’t dictate what is happening in your story as much as they help you find what’s causing trouble for your characters. What’s the source of conflict from this or that perspective? I personally believe you could write a sci-fi action story with OS Mind if you wanted to – it will necessarily feel different from Star Wars, but I don’t think it’s impossible.

Something that will help you shape the climax and other ‘ratchet’ points in your story is the Story Driver. What’s pushing the story along, actions or decisions? Either of these can be paired with an OS Mind storyform.

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#3

Many plays find their Overall Story in Fixed Attitude because they are essentially “talking heads”. Film is an external medium (more or less), so you’re really just showing how the Overall Story Problem presents itself externally, rather than internally.

And I don’t think you can really nail that down - its pretty much open to anything you want as its only identifying the source of conflict (which is what @LunarDynasty was saying).

In regards to Little Miss Sunshine, I’m pretty sure the OS there is in Manipulation (dysfunctional family unit), though I would have to see it again to be sure.

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#4

I’d say the way to do this is to look at the external effects of the internal problem, if that makes sense. A few examples off the top of my head would be:
-A young girl who lacks confidence in herself might find herself an easy target for a bully. The problem is internal (lack of confidence) but you get to show the external effects of this problem (she’s always being picked on)
-An entire country decides it hates people of a certain race/religion/gender/whatever. The external effects of this internal problem show up when people are beaten in the street while others look away, or a group of townsfolk are locked in a building and burned, or people are rounded up and thrown in jail or in a concentration camp.

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#5

I might be off-base here, but my example for an action sci-fi film with an internal domain OS might involve a war that’s threatening humans and an alien race where a fixed attitude of contemplation (each side believing the other intends to become the dominant race in the galaxy) causes never-ending military skirmishes. Unless they can find a way to change the way they think about each other, the two sides will forever be locked in one form of struggle or another. Note that this is different from many types of war movies in which there’s a clearly “good” side (i.e. “us”) and a “bad” side (i.e. “those Germans”) because in those movies the author is saying source of the conflict is the evil Germans who must be defeated rather than saying the war is caused by a shared fixed attitude.

Another example of an action movie in which fixed attitude is the OS domain could be a Hatfield vs McCoys type vendetta in which each sides Memories of what happened to their parents/grandparents…etc prevents them from ending the cycle of killing. Thus the story goal becomes finding a way to get everyone to let go of their memories.

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#6

A lot of great feedback here already. I just wanted to add a few things.

First, be careful about thinking the external effects of an internal problem are only “apparent”. Yes, the root of the problem in a Manipulation or Fixed Attitude OS is internal, but there can be plenty of external problems coming out of that are real and just as “bad”, even if they’re not the root cause.

Similarly, you might find Overall Stories in an external domain but still have various problematic attitudes and ways of thinking present in the OS throughline. The Lives of Others is a good example.

The other thing to mention is that you can use the Story Prerequisites and Consequences to good effect, since they’ll necessarily be a Type in an external domain if the OS is internal. For example, in The Princess Bride the characters need to back up their bluffs (Requirement: Being) with action (Prerequisite: Doing). And if IC is an external domain then Story Preconditions will be an external Type too.

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#7

So I didn’t think about it when I posted previously, but this question goes along pretty well with a story i’m currently working on and have had some trouble with myself. My OS story is in Fixed Attitude and I’ve labelled my notes on this section “Super Hero Fatigue” basically because everyone in the story experiences conflict from being tired of the super heroes. The Super Heroes are all over the television, books, magazines, cereal boxes, kids have super hero toys scattered all over the house, and the (adult) citizens are just tired of them. Part of the way the story looks external is how every time the heroes do battle with a villain they end up destroying sections of the city and making people late for work (I keep imagining the insurance premiums in this city, and the deaths caused by all the smashed buildings but i’m really trying to keep this a kid’s story :slight_smile:) and because of their attitudes about the heroes, the citizens blame the heroes on things that really aren’t their fault. And there’s probably going to be a section where all the superhero memorabilia gets rounded up and thrown out and some new tv show replaces the Superhero show and some other group starts appearing in books and mags.

The source of this particular problem COULD be that the heroes are causing all this damage (that was the original idea for this story), but if the heroes stopped fighting with the villains, the villains would just destroy the city and the citizens would have the same problem with the city being destroyed. So instead, the source of the problem that I’m writing about is how the citizens are just tired of the heroes and end up blaming the heroes for things that really aren’t their fault. The OS concern and goal is Contemplations, which I’ve got a couple of notes for and am still working out, but at least part of the Goal will be seen externally when the superheroes begin fighting against the villains in a different and much less destructive manner because of a change in the way they Contemplate during battle. So I guess the goal would be something like getting the Super Heroes to consider the needs of the citizens while stopping the villains. It’s an internal goal, but has a strong affect on what happens externally.

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#8

GREAT story idea @Gregolas!! Really love it. But it really sounds like you’ve got an OS Concern of Conceiving there and not Contemplations.

I see more examples of Permission(!), Need, Deficiency, and Expediency than I do Investigation, Doubt, Appraisal, and Reappraisal. Even the Goal sounds like trying to get the superheroes to essentially “get a clue”.

Blaming is a Psychology domain problem, not a Fixed Attitude Problem.

But seriously, great idea and very culturally relevant!

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Questions about my OS story
#9

Thanks for the comments @jhull. I really appreciate both the praise and the constructive criticism/advice. There’s definitely the ghosts of some Storyforms Past still leaving their marks on this story, so it would make a lot of sense that part of my problem comes from trying to cram Manipulation stuff into a Fixed Attitude (and to be honest, it’s probably happening in all Throughlines, not just this one). But the number one purpose for writing this story is to better learn how to work with Dramatica to write a story (would that be…Activity, Gathering Information? or maybe Understanding?)

Anyway, I have a couple questions if you have time for them, but don’t want to hijack this thread, so I created the thread Questions about my OS story to ask them.

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Questions about my OS story
#10

I think I understand. Are you saying that while all 4 classes (mind, situation, psychology, & activity) inevitably exist in any given throughline, one will be the predominant focus among the characters in that throughline (i.e. the domain)? A crude way to phrase it would be, “everything is in every throughline, but what’s the focus?” In other words, you could point to examples of some aspects of the other 3 classes in a given throughline, but one domain is explored more than the other 3 in that throughline.

I struggle with this when I come up with endless interpretations for domains like, “the OS in Star Wars could be seen as competing innermost desires among the characters because who doesn’t have strong innermost desires at the root?” True from a certain point of view, but it ain’t the primary focus of exploration for the OS. I guess it comes down to, “what do you primarily focus on? what do you primarily explore?”

But then I second guess myself when I consider that a story can show lots of external manifestations of an internal domain. That makes me go back to square one and wonder, “what’s the dividing line between an internal OS and an external OS?” I suspect the concerns and issues help to clarify it, yes?

#11

It’s really about what the cause of the story’s conflict is. Although asking yourself what is more explored or what the focus is can be helpful, sometimes those questions can be too subjective to be useful.

For example, you might guess that the OS Domain of The Matrix is Manipulation because of Cypher (the traitor) tricking everyone, and Agent Smith trying to convince Morpheus to give up Zion’s codes/location. But if you take those things away you still have this crazy war going on between Agents and rebels, both within the Matrix and without, which has escalated since Neo was identified as “The One”.

Or you might watch The Princess Bride and be so fascinated by the cool sword-fighting, chases, and battling the Fire Swamp terrors that you’d guess the OS Domain was Activities. But if you took those things away you’d still have this evil prince who’s plotting to start a war with a neighbouring country, and is willing to murder his Princess Bride to do it. (You’d also still have a sick kid unwilling to enjoy his grandfather’s wonderful book.)

So, in your own writing, as long as the underlying cause of your throughline’s conflict at the highest level is still the Domain, don’t worry about other stuff cropping up. It might just be storytelling, or it might fit with another part of your structure.

What other part of your structure? Well, if you consider the Issue level you’ll see a lot of Variations that fall under certain Domains but seem to be members of others. The Preconception and Attitude Variations, which both smack of Fixed Attitudes, come under external domains. The Situation variation is under Manipulation; and even Evidence (under Fixed Atittude) has an external aspect to it.

Thus you can see that Cypher’s treachery in The Matrix is an example of the Morality vs. Self Interest conflict at the Issue level, and also fits the OS Problem/Symptom/Response (disbelieving that they can win, he focuses on the temptation of going back to the happy “blue pill” life of the Matrix, and responds with a lack of conscience). But all of this still comes UNDER the grand scale Activities of war between man and machines, rebels and Agents, fighting to gain superiority.

Further reading, Narrative First articles mentioning Litmus Test:

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